What is the probability of rolling two 5s or better with 5 dice?
$begingroup$
Preamble
My question is in the context of a dice game called 31. You have 6 dice and the goal is to have the highest score. If you roll 36, you score 6 points. If you roll 35 you score 5 points and so on up until 30, where you break even. At 29 you lose 1 points and so on.
You roll all the dice at once and after each roll you need to keep at least 1 die on the table. So you roll a maximum of 6 times.
Question
If your first roll gives you 6-5-5-x-x-x (where the Xs ≤ 4), what is the probability of getting at least two 5s if you roll five dice (excluding the 6 that you keep). By "at least two 5s" I mean that 5-5-x-x-x is the bottom of the range and 6-6-6-6-6 is the top of the range.
The question could also be worded "On the 2nd roll, do you keep the 5s and roll 3 dice or do you roll them?"
Thanks.
As to add more clarification to the rules of the games, here's a good exemple provided by @Brams28 int the comment
[...]a roll is rolling all the dice you still have left. You have to keep at least one die after each roll, but a single die could potentially be rolled 6 times. Example: I roll 6,5,4,3,2,1 on the first roll. I decide to keep the 6 and the 5 but reroll the 4 others. Now I get 5,2,2,1. I keep the 5 and reroll the other 3. Now I get 6,3,1. I keep the 6 and reroll the last two. I get 5,4. OK, I keep those two (of course!)
probability recreational-mathematics puzzle conditional-probability dice
$endgroup$
|
show 16 more comments
$begingroup$
Preamble
My question is in the context of a dice game called 31. You have 6 dice and the goal is to have the highest score. If you roll 36, you score 6 points. If you roll 35 you score 5 points and so on up until 30, where you break even. At 29 you lose 1 points and so on.
You roll all the dice at once and after each roll you need to keep at least 1 die on the table. So you roll a maximum of 6 times.
Question
If your first roll gives you 6-5-5-x-x-x (where the Xs ≤ 4), what is the probability of getting at least two 5s if you roll five dice (excluding the 6 that you keep). By "at least two 5s" I mean that 5-5-x-x-x is the bottom of the range and 6-6-6-6-6 is the top of the range.
The question could also be worded "On the 2nd roll, do you keep the 5s and roll 3 dice or do you roll them?"
Thanks.
As to add more clarification to the rules of the games, here's a good exemple provided by @Brams28 int the comment
[...]a roll is rolling all the dice you still have left. You have to keep at least one die after each roll, but a single die could potentially be rolled 6 times. Example: I roll 6,5,4,3,2,1 on the first roll. I decide to keep the 6 and the 5 but reroll the 4 others. Now I get 5,2,2,1. I keep the 5 and reroll the other 3. Now I get 6,3,1. I keep the 6 and reroll the last two. I get 5,4. OK, I keep those two (of course!)
probability recreational-mathematics puzzle conditional-probability dice
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
1
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41
|
show 16 more comments
$begingroup$
Preamble
My question is in the context of a dice game called 31. You have 6 dice and the goal is to have the highest score. If you roll 36, you score 6 points. If you roll 35 you score 5 points and so on up until 30, where you break even. At 29 you lose 1 points and so on.
You roll all the dice at once and after each roll you need to keep at least 1 die on the table. So you roll a maximum of 6 times.
Question
If your first roll gives you 6-5-5-x-x-x (where the Xs ≤ 4), what is the probability of getting at least two 5s if you roll five dice (excluding the 6 that you keep). By "at least two 5s" I mean that 5-5-x-x-x is the bottom of the range and 6-6-6-6-6 is the top of the range.
The question could also be worded "On the 2nd roll, do you keep the 5s and roll 3 dice or do you roll them?"
Thanks.
As to add more clarification to the rules of the games, here's a good exemple provided by @Brams28 int the comment
[...]a roll is rolling all the dice you still have left. You have to keep at least one die after each roll, but a single die could potentially be rolled 6 times. Example: I roll 6,5,4,3,2,1 on the first roll. I decide to keep the 6 and the 5 but reroll the 4 others. Now I get 5,2,2,1. I keep the 5 and reroll the other 3. Now I get 6,3,1. I keep the 6 and reroll the last two. I get 5,4. OK, I keep those two (of course!)
probability recreational-mathematics puzzle conditional-probability dice
$endgroup$
Preamble
My question is in the context of a dice game called 31. You have 6 dice and the goal is to have the highest score. If you roll 36, you score 6 points. If you roll 35 you score 5 points and so on up until 30, where you break even. At 29 you lose 1 points and so on.
You roll all the dice at once and after each roll you need to keep at least 1 die on the table. So you roll a maximum of 6 times.
Question
If your first roll gives you 6-5-5-x-x-x (where the Xs ≤ 4), what is the probability of getting at least two 5s if you roll five dice (excluding the 6 that you keep). By "at least two 5s" I mean that 5-5-x-x-x is the bottom of the range and 6-6-6-6-6 is the top of the range.
The question could also be worded "On the 2nd roll, do you keep the 5s and roll 3 dice or do you roll them?"
Thanks.
As to add more clarification to the rules of the games, here's a good exemple provided by @Brams28 int the comment
[...]a roll is rolling all the dice you still have left. You have to keep at least one die after each roll, but a single die could potentially be rolled 6 times. Example: I roll 6,5,4,3,2,1 on the first roll. I decide to keep the 6 and the 5 but reroll the 4 others. Now I get 5,2,2,1. I keep the 5 and reroll the other 3. Now I get 6,3,1. I keep the 6 and reroll the last two. I get 5,4. OK, I keep those two (of course!)
probability recreational-mathematics puzzle conditional-probability dice
probability recreational-mathematics puzzle conditional-probability dice
edited Jan 6 at 18:11
Bram28
63.8k44793
63.8k44793
asked Jan 6 at 15:30
zaerdyzaerdy
134
134
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
1
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41
|
show 16 more comments
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
1
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
1
1
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41
|
show 16 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
To determine optimal strategy, I'll start from the end.
With the option of keeping/rerolling one die (i.e. the first five are 'locked in') we keep $ge4$ and reroll $le3$ because the expected value $EV_1$ of one $d_6$ is $3.5$
For the option of keeping/rerolling two dice, we need to determine the EV of two $d_6$ with subsequent reroll. To do this, we look at all possible outcomes of two dice and apply the optimal strategy for rerolling one die.
begin{matrix}
6+6&6+5&6+4&6+color{red}3&6+color{red}2&6+color{red}1\
5+6&5+5&5+4&5+color{red}3&5+color{red}2&5+color{red}1\
4+6&4+5&4+4&4+color{red}3&4+color{red}2&4+color{red}1\
color{red}3+6&color{red}3+5&color{red}3+4&3+color{red}3&3+color{red}2&3+color{red}1\
color{red}2+6&color{red}2+5&color{red}2+4&color{red}2+3&2+color{red}2&2+color{red}1\
color{red}1+6&color{red}1+5&color{red}1+4&color{red}1+3&color{red}1+2&1+color{red}1\
end{matrix}
The red numbers are those that we reroll. Replace them with $EV_1=3.5$ and sum each outcome.
begin{matrix}
12&11&10&9.5&9.5&9.5\
11&10&9&8.5&8.5&8.5\
10&9&8&7.5&7.5&7.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&6.5&6.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&5.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&4.5
end{matrix}
Add all these together and divide by $36$ and we get $EV_2=frac{296.5}{36}approx8.236$
Now, for optimal strategy we note that keeping a $5$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $8.5>EV_2$, so this is good. Also, keeping a $4$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $7.5<EV_2$, so this is not good. Finally, keeping $4 4$ gives us $8<EV_2$, so rerolling both dice gives us a slight advantage.
Likewise, we find the optimal strategy for the option of keeping/rerolling three dice by examining all $216$ possible outcomes and apply our optimal strategy for two dice to each. The result is $EV_3approx13.425$. Now keeping a $5$ and rerolling the other two dice $le4$ gives us $5+EV_2=13.236$, which is less than $EV_3$ so our optimal strategy is to reroll all three dice unless we have at least two $5$s, then we reroll the third die $le3$.
Through simulation, I found $EV_4>18.8$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all four dice unless we already have $5 5 5 5 =20$ or $5 5 5 4=19$
I also found $EV_5>24.4$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all five dice unless we have five $5$s.
Finally, with optimal strategy throughout, $EV_6>30.1$ for a full round. The creators of this game likely knew this, with a positive score earned only if you exceed this $EV$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think the answer to first question is much help in answering the second, and I agree with Daniel Mathias's answer to the second—namely that you should roll all 5 dice. If you do that, and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + frac{8,569,700}{350,699} - 30 approx 0.44$.
If you keep the 6 and one of the 5s, roll the remaining four dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + frac{989,065}{52,488} - 30 approx -0.16$.
If you keep the 6 and both 5s, roll the remaining three dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + 5 + frac{13,049}{972} - 30 approx -0.58$.
If you roll $d$ dice, they show the numbers $m_1 ge m_2 ge dots ge m_d$, and you decide to keep $k$ of them and roll the remaining $d-k$ (where $1 le k le d$), then then the ones you should keep are obviously those showing $m_1, m_2, dots , m_k$. If you play optimally thereafter, your expected final sum will be $ES_{d,k} = m_1 + m_2 + dots + m_k + EV_{d-k}$, where $EV_i$ (to purloin Daniel's notation) represents the maximum expected sum you can obtain by proceeding optimally with $i$ dice. Your optimal strategy is therefore to choose the value of $k$ for which $ES_{d,k}$ is a maximum. We therefore get the following recursive equation for the value of $EV_d$:
$$EV_d = sum_{mbox{all $d$-tuples of die faces}}
frac{max_{1le k le d}left(ES_{d,k}right)}{6^d} .$$
Using a Math Studio script to compute the values of $EV_d$ for $d=3 mbox{ to } 6$ (the values $d = 1$ and $2$ are trivial to do by hand), I obtained the following:
begin{eqnarray}
EV_1 &=& frac{7}{2} \
EV_2 &=& frac{593}{72 }approx 8.236\
EV_3 &=& frac{13,049}{972} approx 13.425\
EV_4 &=& frac{989,065}{52,488} approx 18.844\
EV_5 &=& frac{8,569,700}{350,699} approx 24.436\
EV_6 &approx& 30.152 ,
end{eqnarray}
thus confirming Daniel's analysis.
Edit:
It's probably worth giving the following fairly simple explicit description of an optimal strategy.
If you throw the numbers $j_1, j_2, dots , j_d$ when you throw $d$ dice,
list those numbers in decreasing order as $m_1, m_2, dots , m_d$;
calculate the quantites
begin{eqnarray}
S_0 &=& sum_{i=2}^d m_i ,\
S_k &=& EV_k + sum_{i=2}^{d-k} m_i mbox{ for $k= 1, 2, dots , d-2$ , and}\
S_{d-1} &=& EV_{d-1} ;
end{eqnarray}- determine the value $k^*$ of $k$ for which $S_k$ achieves its maximum value;
- If $k^* = 0$, keep all the dice and don't throw any more. Otherwise, keep the $d-k^*$ dice $m_1, dots , m_{d-k^*}$ and throw the $k^*$ dice $m_{d+1-k^*}, dots , m_d$ .
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3064001%2fwhat-is-the-probability-of-rolling-two-5s-or-better-with-5-dice%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
To determine optimal strategy, I'll start from the end.
With the option of keeping/rerolling one die (i.e. the first five are 'locked in') we keep $ge4$ and reroll $le3$ because the expected value $EV_1$ of one $d_6$ is $3.5$
For the option of keeping/rerolling two dice, we need to determine the EV of two $d_6$ with subsequent reroll. To do this, we look at all possible outcomes of two dice and apply the optimal strategy for rerolling one die.
begin{matrix}
6+6&6+5&6+4&6+color{red}3&6+color{red}2&6+color{red}1\
5+6&5+5&5+4&5+color{red}3&5+color{red}2&5+color{red}1\
4+6&4+5&4+4&4+color{red}3&4+color{red}2&4+color{red}1\
color{red}3+6&color{red}3+5&color{red}3+4&3+color{red}3&3+color{red}2&3+color{red}1\
color{red}2+6&color{red}2+5&color{red}2+4&color{red}2+3&2+color{red}2&2+color{red}1\
color{red}1+6&color{red}1+5&color{red}1+4&color{red}1+3&color{red}1+2&1+color{red}1\
end{matrix}
The red numbers are those that we reroll. Replace them with $EV_1=3.5$ and sum each outcome.
begin{matrix}
12&11&10&9.5&9.5&9.5\
11&10&9&8.5&8.5&8.5\
10&9&8&7.5&7.5&7.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&6.5&6.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&5.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&4.5
end{matrix}
Add all these together and divide by $36$ and we get $EV_2=frac{296.5}{36}approx8.236$
Now, for optimal strategy we note that keeping a $5$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $8.5>EV_2$, so this is good. Also, keeping a $4$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $7.5<EV_2$, so this is not good. Finally, keeping $4 4$ gives us $8<EV_2$, so rerolling both dice gives us a slight advantage.
Likewise, we find the optimal strategy for the option of keeping/rerolling three dice by examining all $216$ possible outcomes and apply our optimal strategy for two dice to each. The result is $EV_3approx13.425$. Now keeping a $5$ and rerolling the other two dice $le4$ gives us $5+EV_2=13.236$, which is less than $EV_3$ so our optimal strategy is to reroll all three dice unless we have at least two $5$s, then we reroll the third die $le3$.
Through simulation, I found $EV_4>18.8$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all four dice unless we already have $5 5 5 5 =20$ or $5 5 5 4=19$
I also found $EV_5>24.4$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all five dice unless we have five $5$s.
Finally, with optimal strategy throughout, $EV_6>30.1$ for a full round. The creators of this game likely knew this, with a positive score earned only if you exceed this $EV$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To determine optimal strategy, I'll start from the end.
With the option of keeping/rerolling one die (i.e. the first five are 'locked in') we keep $ge4$ and reroll $le3$ because the expected value $EV_1$ of one $d_6$ is $3.5$
For the option of keeping/rerolling two dice, we need to determine the EV of two $d_6$ with subsequent reroll. To do this, we look at all possible outcomes of two dice and apply the optimal strategy for rerolling one die.
begin{matrix}
6+6&6+5&6+4&6+color{red}3&6+color{red}2&6+color{red}1\
5+6&5+5&5+4&5+color{red}3&5+color{red}2&5+color{red}1\
4+6&4+5&4+4&4+color{red}3&4+color{red}2&4+color{red}1\
color{red}3+6&color{red}3+5&color{red}3+4&3+color{red}3&3+color{red}2&3+color{red}1\
color{red}2+6&color{red}2+5&color{red}2+4&color{red}2+3&2+color{red}2&2+color{red}1\
color{red}1+6&color{red}1+5&color{red}1+4&color{red}1+3&color{red}1+2&1+color{red}1\
end{matrix}
The red numbers are those that we reroll. Replace them with $EV_1=3.5$ and sum each outcome.
begin{matrix}
12&11&10&9.5&9.5&9.5\
11&10&9&8.5&8.5&8.5\
10&9&8&7.5&7.5&7.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&6.5&6.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&5.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&4.5
end{matrix}
Add all these together and divide by $36$ and we get $EV_2=frac{296.5}{36}approx8.236$
Now, for optimal strategy we note that keeping a $5$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $8.5>EV_2$, so this is good. Also, keeping a $4$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $7.5<EV_2$, so this is not good. Finally, keeping $4 4$ gives us $8<EV_2$, so rerolling both dice gives us a slight advantage.
Likewise, we find the optimal strategy for the option of keeping/rerolling three dice by examining all $216$ possible outcomes and apply our optimal strategy for two dice to each. The result is $EV_3approx13.425$. Now keeping a $5$ and rerolling the other two dice $le4$ gives us $5+EV_2=13.236$, which is less than $EV_3$ so our optimal strategy is to reroll all three dice unless we have at least two $5$s, then we reroll the third die $le3$.
Through simulation, I found $EV_4>18.8$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all four dice unless we already have $5 5 5 5 =20$ or $5 5 5 4=19$
I also found $EV_5>24.4$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all five dice unless we have five $5$s.
Finally, with optimal strategy throughout, $EV_6>30.1$ for a full round. The creators of this game likely knew this, with a positive score earned only if you exceed this $EV$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To determine optimal strategy, I'll start from the end.
With the option of keeping/rerolling one die (i.e. the first five are 'locked in') we keep $ge4$ and reroll $le3$ because the expected value $EV_1$ of one $d_6$ is $3.5$
For the option of keeping/rerolling two dice, we need to determine the EV of two $d_6$ with subsequent reroll. To do this, we look at all possible outcomes of two dice and apply the optimal strategy for rerolling one die.
begin{matrix}
6+6&6+5&6+4&6+color{red}3&6+color{red}2&6+color{red}1\
5+6&5+5&5+4&5+color{red}3&5+color{red}2&5+color{red}1\
4+6&4+5&4+4&4+color{red}3&4+color{red}2&4+color{red}1\
color{red}3+6&color{red}3+5&color{red}3+4&3+color{red}3&3+color{red}2&3+color{red}1\
color{red}2+6&color{red}2+5&color{red}2+4&color{red}2+3&2+color{red}2&2+color{red}1\
color{red}1+6&color{red}1+5&color{red}1+4&color{red}1+3&color{red}1+2&1+color{red}1\
end{matrix}
The red numbers are those that we reroll. Replace them with $EV_1=3.5$ and sum each outcome.
begin{matrix}
12&11&10&9.5&9.5&9.5\
11&10&9&8.5&8.5&8.5\
10&9&8&7.5&7.5&7.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&6.5&6.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&5.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&4.5
end{matrix}
Add all these together and divide by $36$ and we get $EV_2=frac{296.5}{36}approx8.236$
Now, for optimal strategy we note that keeping a $5$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $8.5>EV_2$, so this is good. Also, keeping a $4$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $7.5<EV_2$, so this is not good. Finally, keeping $4 4$ gives us $8<EV_2$, so rerolling both dice gives us a slight advantage.
Likewise, we find the optimal strategy for the option of keeping/rerolling three dice by examining all $216$ possible outcomes and apply our optimal strategy for two dice to each. The result is $EV_3approx13.425$. Now keeping a $5$ and rerolling the other two dice $le4$ gives us $5+EV_2=13.236$, which is less than $EV_3$ so our optimal strategy is to reroll all three dice unless we have at least two $5$s, then we reroll the third die $le3$.
Through simulation, I found $EV_4>18.8$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all four dice unless we already have $5 5 5 5 =20$ or $5 5 5 4=19$
I also found $EV_5>24.4$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all five dice unless we have five $5$s.
Finally, with optimal strategy throughout, $EV_6>30.1$ for a full round. The creators of this game likely knew this, with a positive score earned only if you exceed this $EV$.
$endgroup$
To determine optimal strategy, I'll start from the end.
With the option of keeping/rerolling one die (i.e. the first five are 'locked in') we keep $ge4$ and reroll $le3$ because the expected value $EV_1$ of one $d_6$ is $3.5$
For the option of keeping/rerolling two dice, we need to determine the EV of two $d_6$ with subsequent reroll. To do this, we look at all possible outcomes of two dice and apply the optimal strategy for rerolling one die.
begin{matrix}
6+6&6+5&6+4&6+color{red}3&6+color{red}2&6+color{red}1\
5+6&5+5&5+4&5+color{red}3&5+color{red}2&5+color{red}1\
4+6&4+5&4+4&4+color{red}3&4+color{red}2&4+color{red}1\
color{red}3+6&color{red}3+5&color{red}3+4&3+color{red}3&3+color{red}2&3+color{red}1\
color{red}2+6&color{red}2+5&color{red}2+4&color{red}2+3&2+color{red}2&2+color{red}1\
color{red}1+6&color{red}1+5&color{red}1+4&color{red}1+3&color{red}1+2&1+color{red}1\
end{matrix}
The red numbers are those that we reroll. Replace them with $EV_1=3.5$ and sum each outcome.
begin{matrix}
12&11&10&9.5&9.5&9.5\
11&10&9&8.5&8.5&8.5\
10&9&8&7.5&7.5&7.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&6.5&6.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&5.5\
9.5&8.5&7.5&6.5&5.5&4.5
end{matrix}
Add all these together and divide by $36$ and we get $EV_2=frac{296.5}{36}approx8.236$
Now, for optimal strategy we note that keeping a $5$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $8.5>EV_2$, so this is good. Also, keeping a $4$ and rerolling the second die $le3$ gives us an $EV$ of $7.5<EV_2$, so this is not good. Finally, keeping $4 4$ gives us $8<EV_2$, so rerolling both dice gives us a slight advantage.
Likewise, we find the optimal strategy for the option of keeping/rerolling three dice by examining all $216$ possible outcomes and apply our optimal strategy for two dice to each. The result is $EV_3approx13.425$. Now keeping a $5$ and rerolling the other two dice $le4$ gives us $5+EV_2=13.236$, which is less than $EV_3$ so our optimal strategy is to reroll all three dice unless we have at least two $5$s, then we reroll the third die $le3$.
Through simulation, I found $EV_4>18.8$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all four dice unless we already have $5 5 5 5 =20$ or $5 5 5 4=19$
I also found $EV_5>24.4$, so optimal strategy would be to reroll all five dice unless we have five $5$s.
Finally, with optimal strategy throughout, $EV_6>30.1$ for a full round. The creators of this game likely knew this, with a positive score earned only if you exceed this $EV$.
edited Jan 7 at 23:57
answered Jan 7 at 15:18
Daniel MathiasDaniel Mathias
1,36018
1,36018
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I admit I had to read a couple of times because my lack math background but it's really clearly explained. I understand how you found EV1 and EV2 but how did you come up with EV3 to EV6?
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 0:45
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
@zaerdy I found $EV_3$ the same way I found $EV_2$. That is, by writing out the possible combinations of 3 dice, calculating the score for each, and dividing the total by $216$. The others could also be calculated manually, but I just took the values from computer simulation.
$endgroup$
– Daniel Mathias
Jan 11 at 1:08
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
$begingroup$
Oh ok I understand. Thanks. Next christmas I'll really play my best 31 game, thanks to you guys XD
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 11 at 1:20
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think the answer to first question is much help in answering the second, and I agree with Daniel Mathias's answer to the second—namely that you should roll all 5 dice. If you do that, and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + frac{8,569,700}{350,699} - 30 approx 0.44$.
If you keep the 6 and one of the 5s, roll the remaining four dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + frac{989,065}{52,488} - 30 approx -0.16$.
If you keep the 6 and both 5s, roll the remaining three dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + 5 + frac{13,049}{972} - 30 approx -0.58$.
If you roll $d$ dice, they show the numbers $m_1 ge m_2 ge dots ge m_d$, and you decide to keep $k$ of them and roll the remaining $d-k$ (where $1 le k le d$), then then the ones you should keep are obviously those showing $m_1, m_2, dots , m_k$. If you play optimally thereafter, your expected final sum will be $ES_{d,k} = m_1 + m_2 + dots + m_k + EV_{d-k}$, where $EV_i$ (to purloin Daniel's notation) represents the maximum expected sum you can obtain by proceeding optimally with $i$ dice. Your optimal strategy is therefore to choose the value of $k$ for which $ES_{d,k}$ is a maximum. We therefore get the following recursive equation for the value of $EV_d$:
$$EV_d = sum_{mbox{all $d$-tuples of die faces}}
frac{max_{1le k le d}left(ES_{d,k}right)}{6^d} .$$
Using a Math Studio script to compute the values of $EV_d$ for $d=3 mbox{ to } 6$ (the values $d = 1$ and $2$ are trivial to do by hand), I obtained the following:
begin{eqnarray}
EV_1 &=& frac{7}{2} \
EV_2 &=& frac{593}{72 }approx 8.236\
EV_3 &=& frac{13,049}{972} approx 13.425\
EV_4 &=& frac{989,065}{52,488} approx 18.844\
EV_5 &=& frac{8,569,700}{350,699} approx 24.436\
EV_6 &approx& 30.152 ,
end{eqnarray}
thus confirming Daniel's analysis.
Edit:
It's probably worth giving the following fairly simple explicit description of an optimal strategy.
If you throw the numbers $j_1, j_2, dots , j_d$ when you throw $d$ dice,
list those numbers in decreasing order as $m_1, m_2, dots , m_d$;
calculate the quantites
begin{eqnarray}
S_0 &=& sum_{i=2}^d m_i ,\
S_k &=& EV_k + sum_{i=2}^{d-k} m_i mbox{ for $k= 1, 2, dots , d-2$ , and}\
S_{d-1} &=& EV_{d-1} ;
end{eqnarray}- determine the value $k^*$ of $k$ for which $S_k$ achieves its maximum value;
- If $k^* = 0$, keep all the dice and don't throw any more. Otherwise, keep the $d-k^*$ dice $m_1, dots , m_{d-k^*}$ and throw the $k^*$ dice $m_{d+1-k^*}, dots , m_d$ .
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think the answer to first question is much help in answering the second, and I agree with Daniel Mathias's answer to the second—namely that you should roll all 5 dice. If you do that, and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + frac{8,569,700}{350,699} - 30 approx 0.44$.
If you keep the 6 and one of the 5s, roll the remaining four dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + frac{989,065}{52,488} - 30 approx -0.16$.
If you keep the 6 and both 5s, roll the remaining three dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + 5 + frac{13,049}{972} - 30 approx -0.58$.
If you roll $d$ dice, they show the numbers $m_1 ge m_2 ge dots ge m_d$, and you decide to keep $k$ of them and roll the remaining $d-k$ (where $1 le k le d$), then then the ones you should keep are obviously those showing $m_1, m_2, dots , m_k$. If you play optimally thereafter, your expected final sum will be $ES_{d,k} = m_1 + m_2 + dots + m_k + EV_{d-k}$, where $EV_i$ (to purloin Daniel's notation) represents the maximum expected sum you can obtain by proceeding optimally with $i$ dice. Your optimal strategy is therefore to choose the value of $k$ for which $ES_{d,k}$ is a maximum. We therefore get the following recursive equation for the value of $EV_d$:
$$EV_d = sum_{mbox{all $d$-tuples of die faces}}
frac{max_{1le k le d}left(ES_{d,k}right)}{6^d} .$$
Using a Math Studio script to compute the values of $EV_d$ for $d=3 mbox{ to } 6$ (the values $d = 1$ and $2$ are trivial to do by hand), I obtained the following:
begin{eqnarray}
EV_1 &=& frac{7}{2} \
EV_2 &=& frac{593}{72 }approx 8.236\
EV_3 &=& frac{13,049}{972} approx 13.425\
EV_4 &=& frac{989,065}{52,488} approx 18.844\
EV_5 &=& frac{8,569,700}{350,699} approx 24.436\
EV_6 &approx& 30.152 ,
end{eqnarray}
thus confirming Daniel's analysis.
Edit:
It's probably worth giving the following fairly simple explicit description of an optimal strategy.
If you throw the numbers $j_1, j_2, dots , j_d$ when you throw $d$ dice,
list those numbers in decreasing order as $m_1, m_2, dots , m_d$;
calculate the quantites
begin{eqnarray}
S_0 &=& sum_{i=2}^d m_i ,\
S_k &=& EV_k + sum_{i=2}^{d-k} m_i mbox{ for $k= 1, 2, dots , d-2$ , and}\
S_{d-1} &=& EV_{d-1} ;
end{eqnarray}- determine the value $k^*$ of $k$ for which $S_k$ achieves its maximum value;
- If $k^* = 0$, keep all the dice and don't throw any more. Otherwise, keep the $d-k^*$ dice $m_1, dots , m_{d-k^*}$ and throw the $k^*$ dice $m_{d+1-k^*}, dots , m_d$ .
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I don't think the answer to first question is much help in answering the second, and I agree with Daniel Mathias's answer to the second—namely that you should roll all 5 dice. If you do that, and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + frac{8,569,700}{350,699} - 30 approx 0.44$.
If you keep the 6 and one of the 5s, roll the remaining four dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + frac{989,065}{52,488} - 30 approx -0.16$.
If you keep the 6 and both 5s, roll the remaining three dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + 5 + frac{13,049}{972} - 30 approx -0.58$.
If you roll $d$ dice, they show the numbers $m_1 ge m_2 ge dots ge m_d$, and you decide to keep $k$ of them and roll the remaining $d-k$ (where $1 le k le d$), then then the ones you should keep are obviously those showing $m_1, m_2, dots , m_k$. If you play optimally thereafter, your expected final sum will be $ES_{d,k} = m_1 + m_2 + dots + m_k + EV_{d-k}$, where $EV_i$ (to purloin Daniel's notation) represents the maximum expected sum you can obtain by proceeding optimally with $i$ dice. Your optimal strategy is therefore to choose the value of $k$ for which $ES_{d,k}$ is a maximum. We therefore get the following recursive equation for the value of $EV_d$:
$$EV_d = sum_{mbox{all $d$-tuples of die faces}}
frac{max_{1le k le d}left(ES_{d,k}right)}{6^d} .$$
Using a Math Studio script to compute the values of $EV_d$ for $d=3 mbox{ to } 6$ (the values $d = 1$ and $2$ are trivial to do by hand), I obtained the following:
begin{eqnarray}
EV_1 &=& frac{7}{2} \
EV_2 &=& frac{593}{72 }approx 8.236\
EV_3 &=& frac{13,049}{972} approx 13.425\
EV_4 &=& frac{989,065}{52,488} approx 18.844\
EV_5 &=& frac{8,569,700}{350,699} approx 24.436\
EV_6 &approx& 30.152 ,
end{eqnarray}
thus confirming Daniel's analysis.
Edit:
It's probably worth giving the following fairly simple explicit description of an optimal strategy.
If you throw the numbers $j_1, j_2, dots , j_d$ when you throw $d$ dice,
list those numbers in decreasing order as $m_1, m_2, dots , m_d$;
calculate the quantites
begin{eqnarray}
S_0 &=& sum_{i=2}^d m_i ,\
S_k &=& EV_k + sum_{i=2}^{d-k} m_i mbox{ for $k= 1, 2, dots , d-2$ , and}\
S_{d-1} &=& EV_{d-1} ;
end{eqnarray}- determine the value $k^*$ of $k$ for which $S_k$ achieves its maximum value;
- If $k^* = 0$, keep all the dice and don't throw any more. Otherwise, keep the $d-k^*$ dice $m_1, dots , m_{d-k^*}$ and throw the $k^*$ dice $m_{d+1-k^*}, dots , m_d$ .
$endgroup$
I don't think the answer to first question is much help in answering the second, and I agree with Daniel Mathias's answer to the second—namely that you should roll all 5 dice. If you do that, and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + frac{8,569,700}{350,699} - 30 approx 0.44$.
If you keep the 6 and one of the 5s, roll the remaining four dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + frac{989,065}{52,488} - 30 approx -0.16$.
If you keep the 6 and both 5s, roll the remaining three dice and play optimally thereafter, your expected score will be $6 + 5 + 5 + frac{13,049}{972} - 30 approx -0.58$.
If you roll $d$ dice, they show the numbers $m_1 ge m_2 ge dots ge m_d$, and you decide to keep $k$ of them and roll the remaining $d-k$ (where $1 le k le d$), then then the ones you should keep are obviously those showing $m_1, m_2, dots , m_k$. If you play optimally thereafter, your expected final sum will be $ES_{d,k} = m_1 + m_2 + dots + m_k + EV_{d-k}$, where $EV_i$ (to purloin Daniel's notation) represents the maximum expected sum you can obtain by proceeding optimally with $i$ dice. Your optimal strategy is therefore to choose the value of $k$ for which $ES_{d,k}$ is a maximum. We therefore get the following recursive equation for the value of $EV_d$:
$$EV_d = sum_{mbox{all $d$-tuples of die faces}}
frac{max_{1le k le d}left(ES_{d,k}right)}{6^d} .$$
Using a Math Studio script to compute the values of $EV_d$ for $d=3 mbox{ to } 6$ (the values $d = 1$ and $2$ are trivial to do by hand), I obtained the following:
begin{eqnarray}
EV_1 &=& frac{7}{2} \
EV_2 &=& frac{593}{72 }approx 8.236\
EV_3 &=& frac{13,049}{972} approx 13.425\
EV_4 &=& frac{989,065}{52,488} approx 18.844\
EV_5 &=& frac{8,569,700}{350,699} approx 24.436\
EV_6 &approx& 30.152 ,
end{eqnarray}
thus confirming Daniel's analysis.
Edit:
It's probably worth giving the following fairly simple explicit description of an optimal strategy.
If you throw the numbers $j_1, j_2, dots , j_d$ when you throw $d$ dice,
list those numbers in decreasing order as $m_1, m_2, dots , m_d$;
calculate the quantites
begin{eqnarray}
S_0 &=& sum_{i=2}^d m_i ,\
S_k &=& EV_k + sum_{i=2}^{d-k} m_i mbox{ for $k= 1, 2, dots , d-2$ , and}\
S_{d-1} &=& EV_{d-1} ;
end{eqnarray}- determine the value $k^*$ of $k$ for which $S_k$ achieves its maximum value;
- If $k^* = 0$, keep all the dice and don't throw any more. Otherwise, keep the $d-k^*$ dice $m_1, dots , m_{d-k^*}$ and throw the $k^*$ dice $m_{d+1-k^*}, dots , m_d$ .
edited Jan 8 at 5:28
answered Jan 7 at 23:04
lonza leggieralonza leggiera
1,14128
1,14128
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3064001%2fwhat-is-the-probability-of-rolling-two-5s-or-better-with-5-dice%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
$begingroup$
The expected value of a single roll is $3.5$ so trading a sure $5$ for a fresh roll is not a good strategy. Mathematically speaking, it's even a bad idea to give up a $4$.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:32
$begingroup$
@lulu After the first roll there are 5 more rolls, not just one. So with several more rolls for a die to get a potential 6, maybe it is a good idea to reroll the 5s.
$endgroup$
– Bram28
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
The EV is different here because if we do roll 5 dice, we hope to get minimally two 5s out of 5 dice,
$endgroup$
– zaerdy
Jan 6 at 15:38
$begingroup$
@Bram28 So what? As I understand the rules (possibly incorrectly) you have five separate choices to make. Clearly you should keep the $6$ and discard anything which came up $≤3$ . The OP is proposing to toss in the $5's$ which is a bad idea as the expectation is that you will replace each $5$ with a (lower) $3.5$ or have I misunderstood the rules?
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:40
1
$begingroup$
Again, I may be misunderstanding the rules. But if the goal is maximize your expected score you should keep every roll above a $3$ and re-roll those below.
$endgroup$
– lulu
Jan 6 at 15:41