What is the difference between “closed ” and “bounded” in terms of domains?












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I'm working on understanding double & triple integrals (and 3-space geometry in general) and I often encounter in my textbooks the requirement that f is continuous on "a closed bounded domain". Wouldn't these concepts be the same thing? Like, if a domain is closed, it contains it's endpoints, and it thus necessarily finite, and if it is bounded it is contained within some "ball" of finite radius centered around the origin and is so finite. I can't really imagine a domain being closed, and not bound, or vice versa. Am I missing some detail in distinguishing these two?










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  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
    $endgroup$
    – qwenty
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:01










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    Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
    $endgroup$
    – Relure
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:04










  • $begingroup$
    In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:10










  • $begingroup$
    The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
    $endgroup$
    – GPerez
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:24












  • $begingroup$
    @user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Laplacinator
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:40


















1












$begingroup$


I'm working on understanding double & triple integrals (and 3-space geometry in general) and I often encounter in my textbooks the requirement that f is continuous on "a closed bounded domain". Wouldn't these concepts be the same thing? Like, if a domain is closed, it contains it's endpoints, and it thus necessarily finite, and if it is bounded it is contained within some "ball" of finite radius centered around the origin and is so finite. I can't really imagine a domain being closed, and not bound, or vice versa. Am I missing some detail in distinguishing these two?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
    $endgroup$
    – qwenty
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:01










  • $begingroup$
    Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
    $endgroup$
    – Relure
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:04










  • $begingroup$
    In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:10










  • $begingroup$
    The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
    $endgroup$
    – GPerez
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:24












  • $begingroup$
    @user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Laplacinator
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:40
















1












1








1





$begingroup$


I'm working on understanding double & triple integrals (and 3-space geometry in general) and I often encounter in my textbooks the requirement that f is continuous on "a closed bounded domain". Wouldn't these concepts be the same thing? Like, if a domain is closed, it contains it's endpoints, and it thus necessarily finite, and if it is bounded it is contained within some "ball" of finite radius centered around the origin and is so finite. I can't really imagine a domain being closed, and not bound, or vice versa. Am I missing some detail in distinguishing these two?










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




I'm working on understanding double & triple integrals (and 3-space geometry in general) and I often encounter in my textbooks the requirement that f is continuous on "a closed bounded domain". Wouldn't these concepts be the same thing? Like, if a domain is closed, it contains it's endpoints, and it thus necessarily finite, and if it is bounded it is contained within some "ball" of finite radius centered around the origin and is so finite. I can't really imagine a domain being closed, and not bound, or vice versa. Am I missing some detail in distinguishing these two?







calculus definite-integrals






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asked Mar 15 '15 at 10:58









LaplacinatorLaplacinator

470513




470513








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
    $endgroup$
    – qwenty
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:01










  • $begingroup$
    Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
    $endgroup$
    – Relure
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:04










  • $begingroup$
    In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:10










  • $begingroup$
    The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
    $endgroup$
    – GPerez
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:24












  • $begingroup$
    @user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Laplacinator
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:40
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    $mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
    $endgroup$
    – qwenty
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:01










  • $begingroup$
    Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
    $endgroup$
    – Relure
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:04










  • $begingroup$
    In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
    $endgroup$
    – Bernard
    Mar 15 '15 at 11:10










  • $begingroup$
    The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
    $endgroup$
    – GPerez
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:24












  • $begingroup$
    @user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
    $endgroup$
    – Laplacinator
    Mar 15 '15 at 12:40










1




1




$begingroup$
$mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
$endgroup$
– qwenty
Mar 15 '15 at 11:01




$begingroup$
$mathbb{R}$ is closed, but not bounded
$endgroup$
– qwenty
Mar 15 '15 at 11:01












$begingroup$
Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
$endgroup$
– Relure
Mar 15 '15 at 11:04




$begingroup$
Furthermore, $(0,1)$ is bounded, but not closed.
$endgroup$
– Relure
Mar 15 '15 at 11:04












$begingroup$
In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Mar 15 '15 at 11:10




$begingroup$
In $mathbf R^n$, a closed bounded domain is exactly a compact domain, it it has many wonderful properties: a numerical function has a maximum and a minimum, every sequence has a convergent subsequence, &c.
$endgroup$
– Bernard
Mar 15 '15 at 11:10












$begingroup$
The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
$endgroup$
– GPerez
Mar 15 '15 at 12:24






$begingroup$
The plane ${y = x}$, the sphere ${|mathbf x| = 1}$, the graph of any unbounded function $f(x,y)$ defined over $Bbb R^2$. All of these are closed but not bounded! (as subsets of $Bbb R^3$)
$endgroup$
– GPerez
Mar 15 '15 at 12:24














$begingroup$
@user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
$endgroup$
– Laplacinator
Mar 15 '15 at 12:40






$begingroup$
@user2715119 So it is "closed", in the sense of being closed under addition and multiplication (as well as satisfying the other axioms of vector spaces)? Not closed as in "interval containing its endpoints"? Since $mathbb{R}$ is not a closed interval, I assume you are referring to the first part? So a closed geometric shape is one where the set of all points contained "inside" the shape, is closed?
$endgroup$
– Laplacinator
Mar 15 '15 at 12:40












2 Answers
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$begingroup$

In a bounded set, the endpoints need not necessarily be a part of the set whereas in a closed set, the endpoints need to be a part of that set (as you have mentioned in your question). E.g. [0,1] and [0,1) are both bounded (by 0 and 1), but the second set isn't closed.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    Since you are working with double integrals, I'll make some proofs in the space $mathbb{R}^2$




    Proposition 1: If $X$ is closed then it is bounded.




    That proposition is false.

    Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$

    The complement of $mathbb{R}^2$ is $emptyset$, which is an open set.

    Hence, $mathbb{R}^2$ is closed. (also, feel free to use any other characterization of a closed set)

    However, for each disk $B(0,r)$ of radius $r$, there exists a $x in mathbb{R}^2$ such that $||x|| > r$.

    Thus, $mathbb{R}^2$ is not bounded.




    Proposition 2: If $X$ is bounded then it is closed.




    That proposition is false.

    Counter example: $X = B(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| < 1}$, the unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.
    $X$ is bounded because $X subset B(0,2)$ (for every $x in X$, $||x|| < 2$)

    However, $X$ is not closed because the sequence $x_n = (frac{n}{n+1}, 0) in X$ converges to $x =(1,0)$, but $x = (1,0) notin X$.




    Proposition 3: If $X$ is closed then it is finite




    That proposition is false.

    Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$
    $X = mathbb{R}^2$ has been proven to be closed in the propositions above.
    $X = mathbb{R}^2$ is trivially infinite because the injection $f(n) = (n, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.




    Proposition 4: If $X$ is bounded then it is finite




    That proposition is false.

    Counter example: $X = bar{B}(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| <= 1}$, the closed unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.

    I am gonna leave the exercise of proving that the closed unit disk is a closed set. (I could not fit that proof in one sentence).
    $X = bar{B}(0,1)$ is not finite because the injection $f(n) = (frac{1}{n}, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.





    Okay, now I can give some intuition.

    Please, take the following statements with caution since they are pretty informal.



    Think of closed sets as sets that have bounds. A closed disk is closed. The upper plane including the line that divides it with the lower plane is closed.



    Think of bounded sets as sets that can be put inside a disk. So, things that once you "zoom out enough" you will eventually be able to see the entire set inside a disk.



    There are sets that are both bounded and closed (such as the closed unit disk), but one thing does not imply the other. Also, be careful so you do not mix those 2 concepts with the concept of being finite or infinite.



    enter image description here






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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      active

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      active

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      1












      $begingroup$

      In a bounded set, the endpoints need not necessarily be a part of the set whereas in a closed set, the endpoints need to be a part of that set (as you have mentioned in your question). E.g. [0,1] and [0,1) are both bounded (by 0 and 1), but the second set isn't closed.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        In a bounded set, the endpoints need not necessarily be a part of the set whereas in a closed set, the endpoints need to be a part of that set (as you have mentioned in your question). E.g. [0,1] and [0,1) are both bounded (by 0 and 1), but the second set isn't closed.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          In a bounded set, the endpoints need not necessarily be a part of the set whereas in a closed set, the endpoints need to be a part of that set (as you have mentioned in your question). E.g. [0,1] and [0,1) are both bounded (by 0 and 1), but the second set isn't closed.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          In a bounded set, the endpoints need not necessarily be a part of the set whereas in a closed set, the endpoints need to be a part of that set (as you have mentioned in your question). E.g. [0,1] and [0,1) are both bounded (by 0 and 1), but the second set isn't closed.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Oct 22 '18 at 13:39









          Arpan GanguliArpan Ganguli

          214




          214























              1












              $begingroup$

              Since you are working with double integrals, I'll make some proofs in the space $mathbb{R}^2$




              Proposition 1: If $X$ is closed then it is bounded.




              That proposition is false.

              Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$

              The complement of $mathbb{R}^2$ is $emptyset$, which is an open set.

              Hence, $mathbb{R}^2$ is closed. (also, feel free to use any other characterization of a closed set)

              However, for each disk $B(0,r)$ of radius $r$, there exists a $x in mathbb{R}^2$ such that $||x|| > r$.

              Thus, $mathbb{R}^2$ is not bounded.




              Proposition 2: If $X$ is bounded then it is closed.




              That proposition is false.

              Counter example: $X = B(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| < 1}$, the unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.
              $X$ is bounded because $X subset B(0,2)$ (for every $x in X$, $||x|| < 2$)

              However, $X$ is not closed because the sequence $x_n = (frac{n}{n+1}, 0) in X$ converges to $x =(1,0)$, but $x = (1,0) notin X$.




              Proposition 3: If $X$ is closed then it is finite




              That proposition is false.

              Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$
              $X = mathbb{R}^2$ has been proven to be closed in the propositions above.
              $X = mathbb{R}^2$ is trivially infinite because the injection $f(n) = (n, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.




              Proposition 4: If $X$ is bounded then it is finite




              That proposition is false.

              Counter example: $X = bar{B}(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| <= 1}$, the closed unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.

              I am gonna leave the exercise of proving that the closed unit disk is a closed set. (I could not fit that proof in one sentence).
              $X = bar{B}(0,1)$ is not finite because the injection $f(n) = (frac{1}{n}, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.





              Okay, now I can give some intuition.

              Please, take the following statements with caution since they are pretty informal.



              Think of closed sets as sets that have bounds. A closed disk is closed. The upper plane including the line that divides it with the lower plane is closed.



              Think of bounded sets as sets that can be put inside a disk. So, things that once you "zoom out enough" you will eventually be able to see the entire set inside a disk.



              There are sets that are both bounded and closed (such as the closed unit disk), but one thing does not imply the other. Also, be careful so you do not mix those 2 concepts with the concept of being finite or infinite.



              enter image description here






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                1












                $begingroup$

                Since you are working with double integrals, I'll make some proofs in the space $mathbb{R}^2$




                Proposition 1: If $X$ is closed then it is bounded.




                That proposition is false.

                Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$

                The complement of $mathbb{R}^2$ is $emptyset$, which is an open set.

                Hence, $mathbb{R}^2$ is closed. (also, feel free to use any other characterization of a closed set)

                However, for each disk $B(0,r)$ of radius $r$, there exists a $x in mathbb{R}^2$ such that $||x|| > r$.

                Thus, $mathbb{R}^2$ is not bounded.




                Proposition 2: If $X$ is bounded then it is closed.




                That proposition is false.

                Counter example: $X = B(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| < 1}$, the unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.
                $X$ is bounded because $X subset B(0,2)$ (for every $x in X$, $||x|| < 2$)

                However, $X$ is not closed because the sequence $x_n = (frac{n}{n+1}, 0) in X$ converges to $x =(1,0)$, but $x = (1,0) notin X$.




                Proposition 3: If $X$ is closed then it is finite




                That proposition is false.

                Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$
                $X = mathbb{R}^2$ has been proven to be closed in the propositions above.
                $X = mathbb{R}^2$ is trivially infinite because the injection $f(n) = (n, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.




                Proposition 4: If $X$ is bounded then it is finite




                That proposition is false.

                Counter example: $X = bar{B}(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| <= 1}$, the closed unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.

                I am gonna leave the exercise of proving that the closed unit disk is a closed set. (I could not fit that proof in one sentence).
                $X = bar{B}(0,1)$ is not finite because the injection $f(n) = (frac{1}{n}, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.





                Okay, now I can give some intuition.

                Please, take the following statements with caution since they are pretty informal.



                Think of closed sets as sets that have bounds. A closed disk is closed. The upper plane including the line that divides it with the lower plane is closed.



                Think of bounded sets as sets that can be put inside a disk. So, things that once you "zoom out enough" you will eventually be able to see the entire set inside a disk.



                There are sets that are both bounded and closed (such as the closed unit disk), but one thing does not imply the other. Also, be careful so you do not mix those 2 concepts with the concept of being finite or infinite.



                enter image description here






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  1












                  1








                  1





                  $begingroup$

                  Since you are working with double integrals, I'll make some proofs in the space $mathbb{R}^2$




                  Proposition 1: If $X$ is closed then it is bounded.




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$

                  The complement of $mathbb{R}^2$ is $emptyset$, which is an open set.

                  Hence, $mathbb{R}^2$ is closed. (also, feel free to use any other characterization of a closed set)

                  However, for each disk $B(0,r)$ of radius $r$, there exists a $x in mathbb{R}^2$ such that $||x|| > r$.

                  Thus, $mathbb{R}^2$ is not bounded.




                  Proposition 2: If $X$ is bounded then it is closed.




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = B(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| < 1}$, the unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.
                  $X$ is bounded because $X subset B(0,2)$ (for every $x in X$, $||x|| < 2$)

                  However, $X$ is not closed because the sequence $x_n = (frac{n}{n+1}, 0) in X$ converges to $x =(1,0)$, but $x = (1,0) notin X$.




                  Proposition 3: If $X$ is closed then it is finite




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$
                  $X = mathbb{R}^2$ has been proven to be closed in the propositions above.
                  $X = mathbb{R}^2$ is trivially infinite because the injection $f(n) = (n, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.




                  Proposition 4: If $X$ is bounded then it is finite




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = bar{B}(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| <= 1}$, the closed unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.

                  I am gonna leave the exercise of proving that the closed unit disk is a closed set. (I could not fit that proof in one sentence).
                  $X = bar{B}(0,1)$ is not finite because the injection $f(n) = (frac{1}{n}, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.





                  Okay, now I can give some intuition.

                  Please, take the following statements with caution since they are pretty informal.



                  Think of closed sets as sets that have bounds. A closed disk is closed. The upper plane including the line that divides it with the lower plane is closed.



                  Think of bounded sets as sets that can be put inside a disk. So, things that once you "zoom out enough" you will eventually be able to see the entire set inside a disk.



                  There are sets that are both bounded and closed (such as the closed unit disk), but one thing does not imply the other. Also, be careful so you do not mix those 2 concepts with the concept of being finite or infinite.



                  enter image description here






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Since you are working with double integrals, I'll make some proofs in the space $mathbb{R}^2$




                  Proposition 1: If $X$ is closed then it is bounded.




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$

                  The complement of $mathbb{R}^2$ is $emptyset$, which is an open set.

                  Hence, $mathbb{R}^2$ is closed. (also, feel free to use any other characterization of a closed set)

                  However, for each disk $B(0,r)$ of radius $r$, there exists a $x in mathbb{R}^2$ such that $||x|| > r$.

                  Thus, $mathbb{R}^2$ is not bounded.




                  Proposition 2: If $X$ is bounded then it is closed.




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = B(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| < 1}$, the unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.
                  $X$ is bounded because $X subset B(0,2)$ (for every $x in X$, $||x|| < 2$)

                  However, $X$ is not closed because the sequence $x_n = (frac{n}{n+1}, 0) in X$ converges to $x =(1,0)$, but $x = (1,0) notin X$.




                  Proposition 3: If $X$ is closed then it is finite




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = mathbb{R}^2 subset mathbb{R}^2$
                  $X = mathbb{R}^2$ has been proven to be closed in the propositions above.
                  $X = mathbb{R}^2$ is trivially infinite because the injection $f(n) = (n, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.




                  Proposition 4: If $X$ is bounded then it is finite




                  That proposition is false.

                  Counter example: $X = bar{B}(0,1) = {xinmathbb{R}^2, ||x|| <= 1}$, the closed unit circle around the origin in $mathbb{R}^2$.

                  I am gonna leave the exercise of proving that the closed unit disk is a closed set. (I could not fit that proof in one sentence).
                  $X = bar{B}(0,1)$ is not finite because the injection $f(n) = (frac{1}{n}, 0), n in mathbb{N}$ exists.





                  Okay, now I can give some intuition.

                  Please, take the following statements with caution since they are pretty informal.



                  Think of closed sets as sets that have bounds. A closed disk is closed. The upper plane including the line that divides it with the lower plane is closed.



                  Think of bounded sets as sets that can be put inside a disk. So, things that once you "zoom out enough" you will eventually be able to see the entire set inside a disk.



                  There are sets that are both bounded and closed (such as the closed unit disk), but one thing does not imply the other. Also, be careful so you do not mix those 2 concepts with the concept of being finite or infinite.



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                  answered Dec 28 '18 at 4:38









                  AlbuquerqueAlbuquerque

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