Interested in 'naive' pronunciation
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
|
show 8 more comments
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
I'd like to know why 'naive' is pronounced ny-eve but is spelt naive. Where is the ny part coming from? 'na-' isn't pronounced ny, and if the ny part is nai-, then there is only -ve left. This is about pronunciation
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
pronunciation pronunciation-vs-spelling
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
edited Dec 21 '18 at 18:52
Lordology
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
asked Dec 20 '18 at 15:44
LordologyLordology
54514
54514
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52
2
2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
2
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
3
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
2
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
2
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52
|
show 8 more comments
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
add a comment |
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3 Answers
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French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
add a comment |
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
add a comment |
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
French naïf/naïve does not have a falling diphthong, so its pronunciation wouldn't explain the use of /aɪ/ in English.
English doesn't have that many words where /ɑ/ comes directly before another vowel, especially not when the /ɑ/ is in a "weak" position (unstressed, or at least directly before another vowel with a higher level of stress). Words with /aɪ/ before a stressed vowel are a bit more common; e.g. biography, diameter.
The replacement of /ɑ/ with /aɪ/ is presumably an assimilation to the /i/ in the next syllable. In other contexts, other vowels may turn into diphthongs before a palatal glide /j/ in the following syllable: for example, lawyer has come to be pronounced with the /ɔɪ/ diphthong in the first syllable for many people, and words like arroyo, Loyola, Toyota likewise have /ɔɪ/ instead of /o/ as a syllable nucleus.
Something else that might be relevant is that apparently, people once used the pronunciation "/neɪˈiːv/", with an anglicized "long a" value for the first vowel. This might have made it easier for the diphthong /aɪ/ to eventually become established. Other words spelled with "a" that had variants with /eɪ/ and that are now often pronounced with /aɪ/ (rather than ɑ) in its place are Naomi and Israel. Dais also can have either /eɪ/ or /aɪ/ in the first syllable (the French source word was a monosyllable, but the English pronunciation has deviated in syllable count).
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
edited Dec 20 '18 at 16:24
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:19
sumelicsumelic
47.5k8113216
47.5k8113216
add a comment |
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
add a comment |
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
It's of French origin, if that helps. I don't speak French myself.
Word Origin for naive
C7: from French, feminine of naïf, from Old French naif native, spontaneous, from Latin nātīvus native , from nasci to be born
Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 2012 Digital Edition
© William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1979, 1986 © HarperCollins
Publishers 1998, 2000, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2012
Word Origin and History for naive
adj.
1650s, "natural, simple, artless," from French naïve , fem. of naïf , from Old French naif "naive, natural, genuine; just born; foolish, innocent; unspoiled, unworked" (13c.),
from Latin nativus "not artificial," also "native, rustic," literally "born, innate, natural" (see native (adj.)). Related: Naively .
Online Etymology Dictionary, © 2010 Douglas Harper
So I'm surprised it doesn't end with -eoux :)
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
answered Dec 20 '18 at 15:51
CrossRoadsCrossRoads
1853
1853
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
add a comment |
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
2
2
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
It is also noteworthy that the word is often - in English, not French - written with a dieresis over the i (naïve) to indicate that the two vowels are to be pronounced separately, not as a diphthong.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:16
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Is there a way to do that on a standard keyboard?
– CrossRoads
Dec 20 '18 at 16:32
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
Not on an EN-US or EN-UK standard keyboard, but I believe EN-CA can do it, most European language keyboards can, and US-International can. I use US-International routinely because I need to do multilingual word processing.
– Jeff Zeitlin
Dec 20 '18 at 16:39
1
1
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
@CrossRoads See at SU How do I type accented character in Windows? and on a Mac.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 18:01
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
add a comment |
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
That's why the word is really naïve. So there are in effect two i's.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
answered Dec 20 '18 at 16:41
QuentinUKQuentinUK
1073
1073
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
add a comment |
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
1
1
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
Could you back this up with any cited sources?
– Lordology
Dec 20 '18 at 16:42
9
9
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
The diaeresis (two dots) over the ï doesn't indicate two i's; it indicates that the i should be pronounced as a separate vowel, and not as an "ai" diphthong. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diaeresis_(diacritic). So it's na-ive, and not naive.
– Juhasz
Dec 20 '18 at 17:21
3
3
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
As another example, the word "reentry" is properly spelled as "reëntry." That doesn't indicate that there's "three e's" in the word, it indicates that you pronounce it re-en-try rather than reen-try.
– John Montgomery
Dec 20 '18 at 19:46
1
1
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
I think the typographical convention (of using a diaeresis to indicate a vowel pronounced separately) is and old one, and rarely used these days; ‘naïve’ is one of the few words you still see that use it (along with ‘Noël’). It's much more common to use a hyphen (e.g. ‘co-operate’), or nothing at all (e.g. ‘cooperate’).
– gidds
Dec 20 '18 at 23:41
add a comment |
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2
The pronunciation of a word isn't dictated by its spelling. In English, it's better to think of spelling as a clue about the word's pronunciation, rather than as a hard-and-fast rule.
– Mark Beadles
Dec 20 '18 at 15:49
2
@Lordology Nah. Cholmondeley is odd. Taliaferro is odd. Trottiscliffe is odd. Naive is pretty regular.
– choster
Dec 20 '18 at 15:59
3
@Lordology Choster was giving you examples where spelling and pronunciation differ far more widely than in 'naive'. Cholmondeley - Chumley, Taliaferro - Toliver and Trottiscliffe - Trosley. However, they are all either surnames or Placenames and so can perhaps be expected to be on the eccentric side.
– Spagirl
Dec 20 '18 at 16:21
2
Does anyone else pronounce it nah-EVE?
– KarlG
Dec 20 '18 at 19:11
2
Say nah-eve slowly. Then start saying it faster and faster.
– Kevin
Dec 20 '18 at 19:52