Understanding Folland 3.9 Proposition: Radon-Nikodym Derivative











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Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
$int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$



Folland's Proof:
By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.



I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?



This is what I know:
the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.



All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.










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    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
    a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
    $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$



    Folland's Proof:
    By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.



    I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?



    This is what I know:
    the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
    In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.



    All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
    Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
      a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
      $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$



      Folland's Proof:
      By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.



      I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?



      This is what I know:
      the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
      In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.



      All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
      Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.










      share|cite|improve this question













      Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
      a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
      $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$



      Folland's Proof:
      By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.



      I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?



      This is what I know:
      the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
      In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.



      All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
      Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.







      real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory






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      asked Dec 4 at 0:20









      kemb

      655213




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          2 Answers
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          active

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          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which



          $$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$



          for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then



          $$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$



          agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.



          Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:43










          • The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
            – T. Bongers
            Dec 4 at 0:49










          • is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:54


















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that



          $$
          nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
          $$



          Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so



          $$
          intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
          $$



          Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:33










          • Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:37












          • Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:41












          • Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:48











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          2 Answers
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          active

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          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which



          $$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$



          for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then



          $$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$



          agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.



          Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:43










          • The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
            – T. Bongers
            Dec 4 at 0:49










          • is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:54















          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted










          By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which



          $$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$



          for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then



          $$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$



          agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.



          Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:43










          • The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
            – T. Bongers
            Dec 4 at 0:49










          • is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:54













          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted






          By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which



          $$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$



          for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then



          $$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$



          agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.



          Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which



          $$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$



          for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then



          $$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$



          agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.



          Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 4 at 0:27









          T. Bongers

          22.7k54561




          22.7k54561












          • Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:43










          • The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
            – T. Bongers
            Dec 4 at 0:49










          • is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:54


















          • Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:43










          • The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
            – T. Bongers
            Dec 4 at 0:49










          • is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:54
















          Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:43




          Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:43












          The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
          – T. Bongers
          Dec 4 at 0:49




          The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
          – T. Bongers
          Dec 4 at 0:49












          is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:54




          is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:54










          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that



          $$
          nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
          $$



          Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so



          $$
          intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
          $$



          Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:33










          • Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:37












          • Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:41












          • Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:48















          up vote
          1
          down vote













          Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that



          $$
          nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
          $$



          Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so



          $$
          intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
          $$



          Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:33










          • Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:37












          • Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:41












          • Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:48













          up vote
          1
          down vote










          up vote
          1
          down vote









          Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that



          $$
          nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
          $$



          Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so



          $$
          intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
          $$



          Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that



          $$
          nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
          $$



          Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so



          $$
          intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
          $$



          Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 4 at 0:25









          Guido A.

          6,9561730




          6,9561730












          • So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:33










          • Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:37












          • Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:41












          • Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:48


















          • So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:33










          • Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:37












          • Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
            – kemb
            Dec 4 at 0:41












          • Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
            – Guido A.
            Dec 4 at 0:48
















          So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:33




          So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:33












          Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
          – Guido A.
          Dec 4 at 0:37






          Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
          – Guido A.
          Dec 4 at 0:37














          Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:41






          Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
          – kemb
          Dec 4 at 0:41














          Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
          – Guido A.
          Dec 4 at 0:48




          Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
          – Guido A.
          Dec 4 at 0:48


















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