Understanding Folland 3.9 Proposition: Radon-Nikodym Derivative
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Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
$int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$
Folland's Proof:
By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.
I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?
This is what I know:
the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.
All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
$int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$
Folland's Proof:
By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.
I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?
This is what I know:
the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.
All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
$int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$
Folland's Proof:
By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.
I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?
This is what I know:
the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.
All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory
Suppose that $nu$ is a $sigma$-finite signed measure and $mu$, $lambda$ are $sigma$-finite measures on $(X,M)$ such that $nu<<mu$ and $mu << lambda$.
a. If g $in L_1(mu)$ then
$int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$
Folland's Proof:
By considering $nu+$ and $nu-$ separately we may assume $nu geq 0$. The equation $int g dnu=int g frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ is true when g=$X_E$ (indicator function on E), by definition of $dnu/dmu$.
I don't understand why this is true for g=$X_E$ by the definition of $dnu/dmu$? Could someone explain why this is true?
This is what I know:
the decomposition $nu=rho+lambda$ where $lambda$ is mutually singular to $mu$ and $rho << mu$ is called the Lebesgue decomposition of $nu$ with respect to $mu$.
In the case where $nu << mu$, we have $dnu=fdmu$ for some f, $nu(E)=int_E f dmu$ for all E and denote f by $dnu/dmu$. I guess thus we have $nu(E)=int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$, which I guess represents $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu} dmu$.
All the notation is very confusing, so I'm very confused why when g=$X_E$ we can say $dnu=frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu$ in the integral in the proof.
Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks.
real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory
real-analysis analysis probability-theory measure-theory
asked Dec 4 at 0:20
kemb
655213
655213
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add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which
$$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$
for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then
$$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$
agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.
Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that
$$
nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
$$
Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so
$$
intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
$$
Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which
$$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$
for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then
$$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$
agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.
Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which
$$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$
for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then
$$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$
agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.
Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which
$$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$
for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then
$$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$
agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.
Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.
By definition, $dnu / dmu$ is a $mu$-locally integrable function for which
$$int_A frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = nu(A)$$
for all $mu$-measurable sets $A$. So if we take $g = chi_E$, then
$$int_X g frac{dnu}{dmu}, dmu = int_X chi_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu} , dmu = nu(E)$$
agreeing with the fact that $int_X g dnu = int_E dnu = nu(E)$.
Note that the singular part of the measure you refer to is zero in this context, because you're assuming that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$.
answered Dec 4 at 0:27
T. Bongers
22.7k54561
22.7k54561
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
add a comment |
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
Are the conditions for the radon-nikodym derivative to exist that $nu$ and $mu$ are absolutely continuous, or do they also need to be mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:43
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
The typical assumption is that $nu$ is absolutely continuous with respect to $mu$. See, e.g. Wikipedia.
– T. Bongers
Dec 4 at 0:49
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
is$ int_E dnu=nu(E)$ in true only for positive measures (not necessarily signed)?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:54
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that
$$
nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
$$
Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so
$$
intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
$$
Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that
$$
nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
$$
Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so
$$
intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
$$
Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that
$$
nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
$$
Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so
$$
intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
$$
Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.
Since $nu ll mu$, Radon-Nikodym states that
$$
nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu tag{1}
$$
Now, note that for any measure $lambda$ we have that $lambda(E) = intchi_Edlambda$ and so
$$
intchi_E dnu = nu(E) = int_E frac{dnu}{dmu}dmu = intchi_Efrac{dnu}{dmu}dmu. tag{2}
$$
Now, just let $g = chi_E$ and replace it in $(2)$.
answered Dec 4 at 0:25
Guido A.
6,9561730
6,9561730
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
add a comment |
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
So it is true that $nu(E)= int X_E dnu$ even though $nu$ is signed. Is this true for all measures? Also are the conditions for the Radon-Nikodym derivative to exist that $nu << mu$. Do we also have to have that they are mutually singular?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:33
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Here $nu$ is not signed because of the initial simplifications that were made. Iirc with the hypothesis you have (both $sigma$-finite) you only need that $nu ll mu$ to use Radon - Nykodim. I am not certain about mutual singularity (by the way, have a look at Lebesgue's decomposition theorem which is related).
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:37
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Hi but the hypothesis states that $nu$ is a signed $sigma$-finite measure. Oh but we are considering $nu$>0?
– kemb
Dec 4 at 0:41
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
Yes, in the first line of the proof you cite we assume $nu geq 0$. I think the equality should hold regardless, splitting $nu$ into positivity and negativity sets via Hahn's decomposition, but I am not one hundred percent certain.
– Guido A.
Dec 4 at 0:48
add a comment |
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