Method of characteristics for $f f_x + f_y = 1$. Where is the solution valid?












1














Suppose we have a PDE that can be solved with the method of characteristics



begin{align}
F(nabla u, u , x) = 0 text{ in $U$}\
u|_Gamma = g text{ on $Gamma$ }
end{align}



Where $Gamma subset partial U$. Suppose the characteristic curves starting on $Gamma$ don't span the whole set $U$, what can we say about the solution in this points outside the span? Do we lack information to solve the problem or can this be somehow avoided?



To have a precise example I solved the following problem,



$$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 qquadtext{with}qquad f(t,t) = frac{t}{2} quadtext{for}quad 0 < t < 1.$$



In the above notation we have $Gamma = {(t,t): 0 < t < 1}$ and $g(t) = t/2$. I got the solution $f(x,y) = z(s) + g(x(0)) =z(s) + frac{x_0}{2} = y - frac{x - 1/2y^2}{2-y}$ where $y neq 2$, what can I say about the validity of my solution? Is it valid for $mathbb{R^2}$ or just for points $x, y$ such that the characteristic curve trough them, $(x(s),y(s))$ lies on $Gamma$ for $s=0$?










share|cite|improve this question





























    1














    Suppose we have a PDE that can be solved with the method of characteristics



    begin{align}
    F(nabla u, u , x) = 0 text{ in $U$}\
    u|_Gamma = g text{ on $Gamma$ }
    end{align}



    Where $Gamma subset partial U$. Suppose the characteristic curves starting on $Gamma$ don't span the whole set $U$, what can we say about the solution in this points outside the span? Do we lack information to solve the problem or can this be somehow avoided?



    To have a precise example I solved the following problem,



    $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 qquadtext{with}qquad f(t,t) = frac{t}{2} quadtext{for}quad 0 < t < 1.$$



    In the above notation we have $Gamma = {(t,t): 0 < t < 1}$ and $g(t) = t/2$. I got the solution $f(x,y) = z(s) + g(x(0)) =z(s) + frac{x_0}{2} = y - frac{x - 1/2y^2}{2-y}$ where $y neq 2$, what can I say about the validity of my solution? Is it valid for $mathbb{R^2}$ or just for points $x, y$ such that the characteristic curve trough them, $(x(s),y(s))$ lies on $Gamma$ for $s=0$?










    share|cite|improve this question



























      1












      1








      1







      Suppose we have a PDE that can be solved with the method of characteristics



      begin{align}
      F(nabla u, u , x) = 0 text{ in $U$}\
      u|_Gamma = g text{ on $Gamma$ }
      end{align}



      Where $Gamma subset partial U$. Suppose the characteristic curves starting on $Gamma$ don't span the whole set $U$, what can we say about the solution in this points outside the span? Do we lack information to solve the problem or can this be somehow avoided?



      To have a precise example I solved the following problem,



      $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 qquadtext{with}qquad f(t,t) = frac{t}{2} quadtext{for}quad 0 < t < 1.$$



      In the above notation we have $Gamma = {(t,t): 0 < t < 1}$ and $g(t) = t/2$. I got the solution $f(x,y) = z(s) + g(x(0)) =z(s) + frac{x_0}{2} = y - frac{x - 1/2y^2}{2-y}$ where $y neq 2$, what can I say about the validity of my solution? Is it valid for $mathbb{R^2}$ or just for points $x, y$ such that the characteristic curve trough them, $(x(s),y(s))$ lies on $Gamma$ for $s=0$?










      share|cite|improve this question















      Suppose we have a PDE that can be solved with the method of characteristics



      begin{align}
      F(nabla u, u , x) = 0 text{ in $U$}\
      u|_Gamma = g text{ on $Gamma$ }
      end{align}



      Where $Gamma subset partial U$. Suppose the characteristic curves starting on $Gamma$ don't span the whole set $U$, what can we say about the solution in this points outside the span? Do we lack information to solve the problem or can this be somehow avoided?



      To have a precise example I solved the following problem,



      $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 qquadtext{with}qquad f(t,t) = frac{t}{2} quadtext{for}quad 0 < t < 1.$$



      In the above notation we have $Gamma = {(t,t): 0 < t < 1}$ and $g(t) = t/2$. I got the solution $f(x,y) = z(s) + g(x(0)) =z(s) + frac{x_0}{2} = y - frac{x - 1/2y^2}{2-y}$ where $y neq 2$, what can I say about the validity of my solution? Is it valid for $mathbb{R^2}$ or just for points $x, y$ such that the characteristic curve trough them, $(x(s),y(s))$ lies on $Gamma$ for $s=0$?







      pde characteristics






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 7 at 18:12









      Harry49

      5,97621031




      5,97621031










      asked Dec 5 at 10:41









      h3h325

      18910




      18910






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2














          This PDE is a non-homogeneous inviscid Burgers' equation. Let us apply the method of characteristics:





          • $frac{text d y}{text ds} = 1$, letting $y(0) = t$, we know $y = t + s$


          • $frac{text d f}{text ds} = 1$, letting $f(0) = t/2$, we know $f = t/2 + s$


          • $frac{text d x}{text ds} = f$, letting $x(0) = t$, we know $x = t + s(t + s)/2$


          Therefore, the characteristics are the curves $x = t + y(y-t)/2$ for $0<t<1$, along which $f$ is given by
          $$
          f(x,y) = y - frac{x-y^2/2}{2-y} , .
          $$

          One can note that this expression is not defined at $y=2$, where the denominator vanishes. The solution is only valid over the domain in yellow
          $$
          (x,y) in lbrace (t + y(y-t)/2, y), 0<t<1, y<2rbrace
          $$



          characteristics



          Indeed, we start following characteristic curves at some point $(t,t)$ with $0<t<1$. On the one hand, we can decrease $y$ without restriction. But on the other hand, we cannot increase $y$ further than $y=2^-$. At the point $(x,y) = (2,2)$, all characteristic curves coming from $lbrace(t,t), 0<t<1rbrace$ intersect. The classical solution collapses (similar case to this one).





          The reason why the domain of validity is restricted to $y<2$ can be compared to the case of the Riccati ODE initial-value problem
          $$
          x'(t) = -x(t)^2 qquadtext{with}qquad x(0) = -1, .
          $$

          Indeed, the solution $x(t) = frac{1}{t-1}$ blows up at $t=1$ and cannot be used for larger times (even if the solution function is defined for $t>1$). Note that this simple ODE problem can be linked to the PDE problem by following a derivation by Lax, leading to Eq. (6.10) p. 36 of (1).



          (1) P.D. Lax, Hyperbolic systems of conservation laws and the mathematical theory of shock waves, SIAM, 1973 doi:10.1137/1.9781611970562.ch1






          share|cite|improve this answer























          • Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 15:45












          • I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:12












          • I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:22










          • Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:43








          • 1




            @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
            – qbert
            Dec 7 at 18:24



















          0














          $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 tag 1$$
          Charpit-Lagrange equations :
          $$frac{dx}{f}=frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$$
          First family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$ :
          $$f-y=c_1$$
          Second family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dx}{f}=frac{df}{1}$
          $$frac12 f^2-x=c_2$$
          General solution of the PDE expressed on the form of implicit equation :
          $$frac12 f^2-x=Phi(f-y) tag 2$$
          Where $Phi$ is an arbitrary function, to be determined according to boundary condition.



          Condition : $f(x,x)=frac{x}{2}$



          $frac12 (frac{x}{2})^2-x=Phi(frac{x}{2}-x)quad;quad frac{x^2}{8}-x=Phi(-frac{x}{2})$



          Let $X=-frac{x}{2}quad;quad x=-2X$



          $ frac{(-2X)^2}{8}-(-2X)=Phi(X)$
          $$Phi(X)=frac12 X^2+2X$$
          So, the function $Phi$ is determined. We put it into the general solution Eq.$(2)$ where $X=f-y$ :
          $$frac12 f^2-x=frac12 (f-y)^2+2(f-y)$$
          After simplification :
          $$f(x,y)=frac{y^2-4y+2x}{2y-4}qquad yneq 2.$$
          This is the solution of the PDE which satisfies the boundary condition.



          One can check that this solution is valid in putting it into the PDE.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















            Your Answer





            StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
            return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
            StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
            StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
            });
            });
            }, "mathjax-editing");

            StackExchange.ready(function() {
            var channelOptions = {
            tags: "".split(" "),
            id: "69"
            };
            initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

            StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
            // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
            if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
            StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
            createEditor();
            });
            }
            else {
            createEditor();
            }
            });

            function createEditor() {
            StackExchange.prepareEditor({
            heartbeatType: 'answer',
            autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
            convertImagesToLinks: true,
            noModals: true,
            showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
            reputationToPostImages: 10,
            bindNavPrevention: true,
            postfix: "",
            imageUploader: {
            brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
            contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
            allowUrls: true
            },
            noCode: true, onDemand: true,
            discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
            ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
            });


            }
            });














            draft saved

            draft discarded


















            StackExchange.ready(
            function () {
            StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3026922%2fmethod-of-characteristics-for-f-f-x-f-y-1-where-is-the-solution-valid%23new-answer', 'question_page');
            }
            );

            Post as a guest















            Required, but never shown

























            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes








            2 Answers
            2






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

            votes






            active

            oldest

            votes









            2














            This PDE is a non-homogeneous inviscid Burgers' equation. Let us apply the method of characteristics:





            • $frac{text d y}{text ds} = 1$, letting $y(0) = t$, we know $y = t + s$


            • $frac{text d f}{text ds} = 1$, letting $f(0) = t/2$, we know $f = t/2 + s$


            • $frac{text d x}{text ds} = f$, letting $x(0) = t$, we know $x = t + s(t + s)/2$


            Therefore, the characteristics are the curves $x = t + y(y-t)/2$ for $0<t<1$, along which $f$ is given by
            $$
            f(x,y) = y - frac{x-y^2/2}{2-y} , .
            $$

            One can note that this expression is not defined at $y=2$, where the denominator vanishes. The solution is only valid over the domain in yellow
            $$
            (x,y) in lbrace (t + y(y-t)/2, y), 0<t<1, y<2rbrace
            $$



            characteristics



            Indeed, we start following characteristic curves at some point $(t,t)$ with $0<t<1$. On the one hand, we can decrease $y$ without restriction. But on the other hand, we cannot increase $y$ further than $y=2^-$. At the point $(x,y) = (2,2)$, all characteristic curves coming from $lbrace(t,t), 0<t<1rbrace$ intersect. The classical solution collapses (similar case to this one).





            The reason why the domain of validity is restricted to $y<2$ can be compared to the case of the Riccati ODE initial-value problem
            $$
            x'(t) = -x(t)^2 qquadtext{with}qquad x(0) = -1, .
            $$

            Indeed, the solution $x(t) = frac{1}{t-1}$ blows up at $t=1$ and cannot be used for larger times (even if the solution function is defined for $t>1$). Note that this simple ODE problem can be linked to the PDE problem by following a derivation by Lax, leading to Eq. (6.10) p. 36 of (1).



            (1) P.D. Lax, Hyperbolic systems of conservation laws and the mathematical theory of shock waves, SIAM, 1973 doi:10.1137/1.9781611970562.ch1






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 15:45












            • I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:12












            • I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:22










            • Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:43








            • 1




              @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
              – qbert
              Dec 7 at 18:24
















            2














            This PDE is a non-homogeneous inviscid Burgers' equation. Let us apply the method of characteristics:





            • $frac{text d y}{text ds} = 1$, letting $y(0) = t$, we know $y = t + s$


            • $frac{text d f}{text ds} = 1$, letting $f(0) = t/2$, we know $f = t/2 + s$


            • $frac{text d x}{text ds} = f$, letting $x(0) = t$, we know $x = t + s(t + s)/2$


            Therefore, the characteristics are the curves $x = t + y(y-t)/2$ for $0<t<1$, along which $f$ is given by
            $$
            f(x,y) = y - frac{x-y^2/2}{2-y} , .
            $$

            One can note that this expression is not defined at $y=2$, where the denominator vanishes. The solution is only valid over the domain in yellow
            $$
            (x,y) in lbrace (t + y(y-t)/2, y), 0<t<1, y<2rbrace
            $$



            characteristics



            Indeed, we start following characteristic curves at some point $(t,t)$ with $0<t<1$. On the one hand, we can decrease $y$ without restriction. But on the other hand, we cannot increase $y$ further than $y=2^-$. At the point $(x,y) = (2,2)$, all characteristic curves coming from $lbrace(t,t), 0<t<1rbrace$ intersect. The classical solution collapses (similar case to this one).





            The reason why the domain of validity is restricted to $y<2$ can be compared to the case of the Riccati ODE initial-value problem
            $$
            x'(t) = -x(t)^2 qquadtext{with}qquad x(0) = -1, .
            $$

            Indeed, the solution $x(t) = frac{1}{t-1}$ blows up at $t=1$ and cannot be used for larger times (even if the solution function is defined for $t>1$). Note that this simple ODE problem can be linked to the PDE problem by following a derivation by Lax, leading to Eq. (6.10) p. 36 of (1).



            (1) P.D. Lax, Hyperbolic systems of conservation laws and the mathematical theory of shock waves, SIAM, 1973 doi:10.1137/1.9781611970562.ch1






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 15:45












            • I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:12












            • I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:22










            • Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:43








            • 1




              @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
              – qbert
              Dec 7 at 18:24














            2












            2








            2






            This PDE is a non-homogeneous inviscid Burgers' equation. Let us apply the method of characteristics:





            • $frac{text d y}{text ds} = 1$, letting $y(0) = t$, we know $y = t + s$


            • $frac{text d f}{text ds} = 1$, letting $f(0) = t/2$, we know $f = t/2 + s$


            • $frac{text d x}{text ds} = f$, letting $x(0) = t$, we know $x = t + s(t + s)/2$


            Therefore, the characteristics are the curves $x = t + y(y-t)/2$ for $0<t<1$, along which $f$ is given by
            $$
            f(x,y) = y - frac{x-y^2/2}{2-y} , .
            $$

            One can note that this expression is not defined at $y=2$, where the denominator vanishes. The solution is only valid over the domain in yellow
            $$
            (x,y) in lbrace (t + y(y-t)/2, y), 0<t<1, y<2rbrace
            $$



            characteristics



            Indeed, we start following characteristic curves at some point $(t,t)$ with $0<t<1$. On the one hand, we can decrease $y$ without restriction. But on the other hand, we cannot increase $y$ further than $y=2^-$. At the point $(x,y) = (2,2)$, all characteristic curves coming from $lbrace(t,t), 0<t<1rbrace$ intersect. The classical solution collapses (similar case to this one).





            The reason why the domain of validity is restricted to $y<2$ can be compared to the case of the Riccati ODE initial-value problem
            $$
            x'(t) = -x(t)^2 qquadtext{with}qquad x(0) = -1, .
            $$

            Indeed, the solution $x(t) = frac{1}{t-1}$ blows up at $t=1$ and cannot be used for larger times (even if the solution function is defined for $t>1$). Note that this simple ODE problem can be linked to the PDE problem by following a derivation by Lax, leading to Eq. (6.10) p. 36 of (1).



            (1) P.D. Lax, Hyperbolic systems of conservation laws and the mathematical theory of shock waves, SIAM, 1973 doi:10.1137/1.9781611970562.ch1






            share|cite|improve this answer














            This PDE is a non-homogeneous inviscid Burgers' equation. Let us apply the method of characteristics:





            • $frac{text d y}{text ds} = 1$, letting $y(0) = t$, we know $y = t + s$


            • $frac{text d f}{text ds} = 1$, letting $f(0) = t/2$, we know $f = t/2 + s$


            • $frac{text d x}{text ds} = f$, letting $x(0) = t$, we know $x = t + s(t + s)/2$


            Therefore, the characteristics are the curves $x = t + y(y-t)/2$ for $0<t<1$, along which $f$ is given by
            $$
            f(x,y) = y - frac{x-y^2/2}{2-y} , .
            $$

            One can note that this expression is not defined at $y=2$, where the denominator vanishes. The solution is only valid over the domain in yellow
            $$
            (x,y) in lbrace (t + y(y-t)/2, y), 0<t<1, y<2rbrace
            $$



            characteristics



            Indeed, we start following characteristic curves at some point $(t,t)$ with $0<t<1$. On the one hand, we can decrease $y$ without restriction. But on the other hand, we cannot increase $y$ further than $y=2^-$. At the point $(x,y) = (2,2)$, all characteristic curves coming from $lbrace(t,t), 0<t<1rbrace$ intersect. The classical solution collapses (similar case to this one).





            The reason why the domain of validity is restricted to $y<2$ can be compared to the case of the Riccati ODE initial-value problem
            $$
            x'(t) = -x(t)^2 qquadtext{with}qquad x(0) = -1, .
            $$

            Indeed, the solution $x(t) = frac{1}{t-1}$ blows up at $t=1$ and cannot be used for larger times (even if the solution function is defined for $t>1$). Note that this simple ODE problem can be linked to the PDE problem by following a derivation by Lax, leading to Eq. (6.10) p. 36 of (1).



            (1) P.D. Lax, Hyperbolic systems of conservation laws and the mathematical theory of shock waves, SIAM, 1973 doi:10.1137/1.9781611970562.ch1







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 8 at 11:05

























            answered Dec 5 at 14:09









            Harry49

            5,97621031




            5,97621031












            • Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 15:45












            • I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:12












            • I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:22










            • Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:43








            • 1




              @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
              – qbert
              Dec 7 at 18:24


















            • Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 15:45












            • I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:12












            • I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:22










            • Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
              – h3h325
              Dec 5 at 16:43








            • 1




              @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
              – qbert
              Dec 7 at 18:24
















            Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 15:45






            Why is the solution only valid on the domain in yellow when $f(x,y)$ is defined for all $x$, $y neq 2$ ? It seems to me that the validity of the solution still holds outside although we might lose unicity since the associated system of ODE does not have initial conditions.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 15:45














            I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:12






            I understand why the solution is not valid for $y =2$, I also see why the idea behind the method should fail if the characteristic curves intersect. But as I see it for $y>2$ the function $f(x,y)$ satisfies the pde and also the initial condition, so why can we not take it as a solution? Thanks a lot for the answer by the way.
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:12














            I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:22




            I see! So the conclusion is that the solution still holds but we cannot guarantee uniqueness, right?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:22












            Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:43






            Sorry if im beeing too picky but I still don't get your point. The system of ODEs does have a solution by Picard-Lindelöf (even if it is not unique), since 1, 1 and $f$ are lipschitz, for any $[S, infty)$, for some $S$ corresponding to $y >2$, so why are we losing existence? Also $f(x,y)$ satisfies the PDE everywhere where it is defined, and also the initial conditions. So how is $f$ not a solution? Could you maybe refer me somewhere were this is explained?
            – h3h325
            Dec 5 at 16:43






            1




            1




            @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
            – qbert
            Dec 7 at 18:24




            @h3h325 I'm troubled by your statement about Picard Lindelof, please note that it is a local existence and uniqueness theorem
            – qbert
            Dec 7 at 18:24











            0














            $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 tag 1$$
            Charpit-Lagrange equations :
            $$frac{dx}{f}=frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$$
            First family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$ :
            $$f-y=c_1$$
            Second family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dx}{f}=frac{df}{1}$
            $$frac12 f^2-x=c_2$$
            General solution of the PDE expressed on the form of implicit equation :
            $$frac12 f^2-x=Phi(f-y) tag 2$$
            Where $Phi$ is an arbitrary function, to be determined according to boundary condition.



            Condition : $f(x,x)=frac{x}{2}$



            $frac12 (frac{x}{2})^2-x=Phi(frac{x}{2}-x)quad;quad frac{x^2}{8}-x=Phi(-frac{x}{2})$



            Let $X=-frac{x}{2}quad;quad x=-2X$



            $ frac{(-2X)^2}{8}-(-2X)=Phi(X)$
            $$Phi(X)=frac12 X^2+2X$$
            So, the function $Phi$ is determined. We put it into the general solution Eq.$(2)$ where $X=f-y$ :
            $$frac12 f^2-x=frac12 (f-y)^2+2(f-y)$$
            After simplification :
            $$f(x,y)=frac{y^2-4y+2x}{2y-4}qquad yneq 2.$$
            This is the solution of the PDE which satisfies the boundary condition.



            One can check that this solution is valid in putting it into the PDE.






            share|cite|improve this answer


























              0














              $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 tag 1$$
              Charpit-Lagrange equations :
              $$frac{dx}{f}=frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$$
              First family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$ :
              $$f-y=c_1$$
              Second family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dx}{f}=frac{df}{1}$
              $$frac12 f^2-x=c_2$$
              General solution of the PDE expressed on the form of implicit equation :
              $$frac12 f^2-x=Phi(f-y) tag 2$$
              Where $Phi$ is an arbitrary function, to be determined according to boundary condition.



              Condition : $f(x,x)=frac{x}{2}$



              $frac12 (frac{x}{2})^2-x=Phi(frac{x}{2}-x)quad;quad frac{x^2}{8}-x=Phi(-frac{x}{2})$



              Let $X=-frac{x}{2}quad;quad x=-2X$



              $ frac{(-2X)^2}{8}-(-2X)=Phi(X)$
              $$Phi(X)=frac12 X^2+2X$$
              So, the function $Phi$ is determined. We put it into the general solution Eq.$(2)$ where $X=f-y$ :
              $$frac12 f^2-x=frac12 (f-y)^2+2(f-y)$$
              After simplification :
              $$f(x,y)=frac{y^2-4y+2x}{2y-4}qquad yneq 2.$$
              This is the solution of the PDE which satisfies the boundary condition.



              One can check that this solution is valid in putting it into the PDE.






              share|cite|improve this answer
























                0












                0








                0






                $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 tag 1$$
                Charpit-Lagrange equations :
                $$frac{dx}{f}=frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$$
                First family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$ :
                $$f-y=c_1$$
                Second family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dx}{f}=frac{df}{1}$
                $$frac12 f^2-x=c_2$$
                General solution of the PDE expressed on the form of implicit equation :
                $$frac12 f^2-x=Phi(f-y) tag 2$$
                Where $Phi$ is an arbitrary function, to be determined according to boundary condition.



                Condition : $f(x,x)=frac{x}{2}$



                $frac12 (frac{x}{2})^2-x=Phi(frac{x}{2}-x)quad;quad frac{x^2}{8}-x=Phi(-frac{x}{2})$



                Let $X=-frac{x}{2}quad;quad x=-2X$



                $ frac{(-2X)^2}{8}-(-2X)=Phi(X)$
                $$Phi(X)=frac12 X^2+2X$$
                So, the function $Phi$ is determined. We put it into the general solution Eq.$(2)$ where $X=f-y$ :
                $$frac12 f^2-x=frac12 (f-y)^2+2(f-y)$$
                After simplification :
                $$f(x,y)=frac{y^2-4y+2x}{2y-4}qquad yneq 2.$$
                This is the solution of the PDE which satisfies the boundary condition.



                One can check that this solution is valid in putting it into the PDE.






                share|cite|improve this answer












                $$f(x,y)frac{partial f}{partial x} + frac{partial f}{partial y}= 1 tag 1$$
                Charpit-Lagrange equations :
                $$frac{dx}{f}=frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$$
                First family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dy}{1}=frac{df}{1}$ :
                $$f-y=c_1$$
                Second family of characteristic curves, from $frac{dx}{f}=frac{df}{1}$
                $$frac12 f^2-x=c_2$$
                General solution of the PDE expressed on the form of implicit equation :
                $$frac12 f^2-x=Phi(f-y) tag 2$$
                Where $Phi$ is an arbitrary function, to be determined according to boundary condition.



                Condition : $f(x,x)=frac{x}{2}$



                $frac12 (frac{x}{2})^2-x=Phi(frac{x}{2}-x)quad;quad frac{x^2}{8}-x=Phi(-frac{x}{2})$



                Let $X=-frac{x}{2}quad;quad x=-2X$



                $ frac{(-2X)^2}{8}-(-2X)=Phi(X)$
                $$Phi(X)=frac12 X^2+2X$$
                So, the function $Phi$ is determined. We put it into the general solution Eq.$(2)$ where $X=f-y$ :
                $$frac12 f^2-x=frac12 (f-y)^2+2(f-y)$$
                After simplification :
                $$f(x,y)=frac{y^2-4y+2x}{2y-4}qquad yneq 2.$$
                This is the solution of the PDE which satisfies the boundary condition.



                One can check that this solution is valid in putting it into the PDE.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 8 at 8:11









                JJacquelin

                42.5k21750




                42.5k21750






























                    draft saved

                    draft discarded




















































                    Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





                    Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


                    Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


                    • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                    But avoid



                    • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                    • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                    To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                    draft saved


                    draft discarded














                    StackExchange.ready(
                    function () {
                    StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3026922%2fmethod-of-characteristics-for-f-f-x-f-y-1-where-is-the-solution-valid%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                    }
                    );

                    Post as a guest















                    Required, but never shown





















































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown

































                    Required, but never shown














                    Required, but never shown












                    Required, but never shown







                    Required, but never shown







                    Popular posts from this blog

                    Bressuire

                    Cabo Verde

                    Gyllenstierna