Numerical approximation of non-unique ODE solution
$begingroup$
Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.
Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?
Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.
Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$
$x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.
ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.
Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?
Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.
Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$
$x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.
ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.
Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?
Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.
Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$
$x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.
ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods
$endgroup$
Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.
Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?
Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.
Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$
$x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.
ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods
ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods
asked Apr 30 '18 at 1:06
AlexanderJ93AlexanderJ93
6,113823
6,113823
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.
However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.
Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.
In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2759576%2fnumerical-approximation-of-non-unique-ode-solution%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.
However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.
However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.
However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.
$endgroup$
Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.
However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.
answered May 3 '18 at 22:39
JonasJonas
368211
368211
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Then why was it on my final exam :(
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 3 '18 at 22:41
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
$endgroup$
– Jonas
May 4 '18 at 6:59
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
$begingroup$
There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
$endgroup$
– AlexanderJ93
May 6 '18 at 23:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.
Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.
In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.
Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.
In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.
Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.
In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.
$endgroup$
It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.
Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.
In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.
answered Dec 14 '18 at 16:47
dschultdschult
464
464
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2759576%2fnumerical-approximation-of-non-unique-ode-solution%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown