Numerical approximation of non-unique ODE solution












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Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.



Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?



Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.



Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$



$x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.










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    Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.



    Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?



    Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.



    Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$



    $x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.










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      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.



      Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?



      Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.



      Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$



      $x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      Suppose you have an autonomous first order IVP $$x'(t)=f(x(t)), quad x(t_0)=x_0$$ where $x(t)inmathbb{R}$ and $x_0$ is a fixed point of the equation. Clearly, $$ x^0(t) equiv x_0$$ is a solution to this ODE. However, suppose there exists some other non-trivial solution $x^1(t)$ and that $f'(x(t))$ does not exist when $t=t_0$.



      Is there a numerical procedure which will approximately solve the IVP and give $x^1(t)$ as a result?



      Euler's method, $x(t+h) = x(t)+hf(x(t))%$, clearly converges to the trivial solution $x^0$, which can be seen via a simple induction argument. Other Taylor series methods are out since $f$ is not differentiable at $t_0$. It looks like basically any numerical procedure which converges to a solution of the the equation will converge to $x^0$.



      Example: $x'(t) = sqrt{|x(t)|}, quad x(0)=0$



      $x^0(t)equiv 0$ is one solution, and $x^1(t) = frac{1}{4}t^2text{sign}(t)$ is another (Grimshaw, "Nonlinear Ordinary Differential Equations", pg. 21 ex. 3). Any numerical procedure I throw at it converges to $x^0$, but I want one which approximates $x^1$.







      ordinary-differential-equations numerical-methods






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      asked Apr 30 '18 at 1:06









      AlexanderJ93AlexanderJ93

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          $begingroup$

          Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.



          However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.






          share|cite|improve this answer









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          • $begingroup$
            Then why was it on my final exam :(
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 3 '18 at 22:41










          • $begingroup$
            Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
            $endgroup$
            – Jonas
            May 4 '18 at 6:59










          • $begingroup$
            There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 6 '18 at 23:42



















          0












          $begingroup$

          It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.



          Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.



          In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.






          share|cite|improve this answer









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            2 Answers
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            2 Answers
            2






            active

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            $begingroup$

            Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.



            However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Then why was it on my final exam :(
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 3 '18 at 22:41










            • $begingroup$
              Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
              $endgroup$
              – Jonas
              May 4 '18 at 6:59










            • $begingroup$
              There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 6 '18 at 23:42
















            2












            $begingroup$

            Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.



            However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Then why was it on my final exam :(
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 3 '18 at 22:41










            • $begingroup$
              Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
              $endgroup$
              – Jonas
              May 4 '18 at 6:59










            • $begingroup$
              There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 6 '18 at 23:42














            2












            2








            2





            $begingroup$

            Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.



            However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Problems like this are to my knowledge often not discussed in numerical analysis. The problem you look at is clearly ill-posed.



            However, there is the fairly new branch of mathematics called "probabilistic numerics" that tries to combine methods from statistics and numerical analysis. They in principal propose to reformulate the problem to a well-posed statistical one. This has been done for all kinds of numerical analysis, including the discretisation of ODEs. I suggest you look at Conrad et al. 2016 for probabilistic ODE solvers and maybe at http://www.probabilistic-numerics.org for the bigger image.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered May 3 '18 at 22:39









            JonasJonas

            368211




            368211












            • $begingroup$
              Then why was it on my final exam :(
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 3 '18 at 22:41










            • $begingroup$
              Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
              $endgroup$
              – Jonas
              May 4 '18 at 6:59










            • $begingroup$
              There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 6 '18 at 23:42


















            • $begingroup$
              Then why was it on my final exam :(
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 3 '18 at 22:41










            • $begingroup$
              Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
              $endgroup$
              – Jonas
              May 4 '18 at 6:59










            • $begingroup$
              There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
              $endgroup$
              – AlexanderJ93
              May 6 '18 at 23:42
















            $begingroup$
            Then why was it on my final exam :(
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 3 '18 at 22:41




            $begingroup$
            Then why was it on my final exam :(
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 3 '18 at 22:41












            $begingroup$
            Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
            $endgroup$
            – Jonas
            May 4 '18 at 6:59




            $begingroup$
            Was the general question on your final exam or the question with the square-root?
            $endgroup$
            – Jonas
            May 4 '18 at 6:59












            $begingroup$
            There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 6 '18 at 23:42




            $begingroup$
            There was a different equation with the same issue. I believe it was y'=y^(1/3).
            $endgroup$
            – AlexanderJ93
            May 6 '18 at 23:42











            0












            $begingroup$

            It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.



            Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.



            In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$


















              0












              $begingroup$

              It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.



              Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.



              In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$
















                0












                0








                0





                $begingroup$

                It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.



                Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.



                In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$



                It looks like are trying explicit numerical methods. By their nature they can only give a single value at the new time -- multiple solutions are not obtained when sing explicit methods $y_{n+1} = g(y_n)$. Implicit methods involve solving an implicit equation for $y_{n+1}$ at each time-step. That should allow for multiple solutions since rootfinding methods must be able to handle multiple solutions.



                Try Backward Euler (at first step): $y_1 - y_0 = dt; y_1^{1/3}$. Factoring on the left side yields $(1-dt;y_1^{-2/3})y_1=y_0$. We take $y_0=0$ and get two solutions for $y_1$: $y_1=0$ and $y_1=dt^{3/2}$. The second solution approximates the solution you want. Depending on the rootfinder you use, you might get either of these solutions.



                In this case a semi-implicit solution that weights the right side evaluation as 1/3 at old time and 2/3 at new time will give zero numerical error on the first time-step for any step size - but that is specific to this example.







                share|cite|improve this answer












                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer










                answered Dec 14 '18 at 16:47









                dschultdschult

                464




                464






























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