Condition for pullback to split











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This is probably an elementary question, but I'm new to this machinery.



Let $G$ be a group and $N$ be a normal subgroup of $G$. Let $Gamma$ be another group. Suppose we have a homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$.
Now we have the homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$ and the canonical quotient homomorphism $psi:G to G/N$.



Denote by $H$ the pullback of the two homomorphisms to $G/N$. That is, $H subseteq G times Gamma$ comprising elements $(g,gamma)$ such that $phi(gamma)=psi(g) in G/N$.



So we have the following two diagrams:
$$1 rightarrow N rightarrow Gstackrel{psi}{rightarrow} G/Nrightarrow 1$$
which is a short exact sequence, and another diagram
$$begin{array}
GG & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N\
uparrow & & uparrow{phi} \
H & longrightarrow & Gamma
end{array}
$$

Is the following also a commutative diagram?
$$begin{array}
11 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & G & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N & longrightarrow & 1\
& & uparrow & & uparrow & & uparrow{phi} & & \
1 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & H & longrightarrow & Gamma & longrightarrow & 1\
end{array}
$$

That is, can $N$ be embedded in the pullback $H$?



Secondly, suppose the map $phi:Gamma to G/N$ can be lifted to a map $phi':Gamma to G$ so that we have a commuting diagram bypassing $H$. In this case, is $H$ a semidirect product of $N$ and $Gamma$?



In other words, is the bottom exact sequence split when $phi$ can be lifted diagonally to $G$, and is the converse true too?



Thanks!










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    This is probably an elementary question, but I'm new to this machinery.



    Let $G$ be a group and $N$ be a normal subgroup of $G$. Let $Gamma$ be another group. Suppose we have a homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$.
    Now we have the homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$ and the canonical quotient homomorphism $psi:G to G/N$.



    Denote by $H$ the pullback of the two homomorphisms to $G/N$. That is, $H subseteq G times Gamma$ comprising elements $(g,gamma)$ such that $phi(gamma)=psi(g) in G/N$.



    So we have the following two diagrams:
    $$1 rightarrow N rightarrow Gstackrel{psi}{rightarrow} G/Nrightarrow 1$$
    which is a short exact sequence, and another diagram
    $$begin{array}
    GG & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N\
    uparrow & & uparrow{phi} \
    H & longrightarrow & Gamma
    end{array}
    $$

    Is the following also a commutative diagram?
    $$begin{array}
    11 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & G & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N & longrightarrow & 1\
    & & uparrow & & uparrow & & uparrow{phi} & & \
    1 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & H & longrightarrow & Gamma & longrightarrow & 1\
    end{array}
    $$

    That is, can $N$ be embedded in the pullback $H$?



    Secondly, suppose the map $phi:Gamma to G/N$ can be lifted to a map $phi':Gamma to G$ so that we have a commuting diagram bypassing $H$. In this case, is $H$ a semidirect product of $N$ and $Gamma$?



    In other words, is the bottom exact sequence split when $phi$ can be lifted diagonally to $G$, and is the converse true too?



    Thanks!










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite
      1









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite
      1






      1





      This is probably an elementary question, but I'm new to this machinery.



      Let $G$ be a group and $N$ be a normal subgroup of $G$. Let $Gamma$ be another group. Suppose we have a homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$.
      Now we have the homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$ and the canonical quotient homomorphism $psi:G to G/N$.



      Denote by $H$ the pullback of the two homomorphisms to $G/N$. That is, $H subseteq G times Gamma$ comprising elements $(g,gamma)$ such that $phi(gamma)=psi(g) in G/N$.



      So we have the following two diagrams:
      $$1 rightarrow N rightarrow Gstackrel{psi}{rightarrow} G/Nrightarrow 1$$
      which is a short exact sequence, and another diagram
      $$begin{array}
      GG & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N\
      uparrow & & uparrow{phi} \
      H & longrightarrow & Gamma
      end{array}
      $$

      Is the following also a commutative diagram?
      $$begin{array}
      11 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & G & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N & longrightarrow & 1\
      & & uparrow & & uparrow & & uparrow{phi} & & \
      1 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & H & longrightarrow & Gamma & longrightarrow & 1\
      end{array}
      $$

      That is, can $N$ be embedded in the pullback $H$?



      Secondly, suppose the map $phi:Gamma to G/N$ can be lifted to a map $phi':Gamma to G$ so that we have a commuting diagram bypassing $H$. In this case, is $H$ a semidirect product of $N$ and $Gamma$?



      In other words, is the bottom exact sequence split when $phi$ can be lifted diagonally to $G$, and is the converse true too?



      Thanks!










      share|cite|improve this question













      This is probably an elementary question, but I'm new to this machinery.



      Let $G$ be a group and $N$ be a normal subgroup of $G$. Let $Gamma$ be another group. Suppose we have a homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$.
      Now we have the homomorphism $phi:Gamma to G/N$ and the canonical quotient homomorphism $psi:G to G/N$.



      Denote by $H$ the pullback of the two homomorphisms to $G/N$. That is, $H subseteq G times Gamma$ comprising elements $(g,gamma)$ such that $phi(gamma)=psi(g) in G/N$.



      So we have the following two diagrams:
      $$1 rightarrow N rightarrow Gstackrel{psi}{rightarrow} G/Nrightarrow 1$$
      which is a short exact sequence, and another diagram
      $$begin{array}
      GG & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N\
      uparrow & & uparrow{phi} \
      H & longrightarrow & Gamma
      end{array}
      $$

      Is the following also a commutative diagram?
      $$begin{array}
      11 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & G & stackrel{psi}{longrightarrow} & G/N & longrightarrow & 1\
      & & uparrow & & uparrow & & uparrow{phi} & & \
      1 & longrightarrow & N & longrightarrow & H & longrightarrow & Gamma & longrightarrow & 1\
      end{array}
      $$

      That is, can $N$ be embedded in the pullback $H$?



      Secondly, suppose the map $phi:Gamma to G/N$ can be lifted to a map $phi':Gamma to G$ so that we have a commuting diagram bypassing $H$. In this case, is $H$ a semidirect product of $N$ and $Gamma$?



      In other words, is the bottom exact sequence split when $phi$ can be lifted diagonally to $G$, and is the converse true too?



      Thanks!







      abstract-algebra group-theory category-theory exact-sequence diagram-chasing






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      asked yesterday









      BharatRam

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          Yes and Yes. The subgroup $N$ of $H$ that you are looking for is ${(n,1) : n in N }$, and the complement you are looking for is ${(phi'(gamma),gamma) : gamma in Gamma}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
            – BharatRam
            yesterday










          • I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
            – Derek Holt
            yesterday











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          up vote
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          down vote













          Yes and Yes. The subgroup $N$ of $H$ that you are looking for is ${(n,1) : n in N }$, and the complement you are looking for is ${(phi'(gamma),gamma) : gamma in Gamma}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
            – BharatRam
            yesterday










          • I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
            – Derek Holt
            yesterday















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          Yes and Yes. The subgroup $N$ of $H$ that you are looking for is ${(n,1) : n in N }$, and the complement you are looking for is ${(phi'(gamma),gamma) : gamma in Gamma}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
            – BharatRam
            yesterday










          • I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
            – Derek Holt
            yesterday













          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          Yes and Yes. The subgroup $N$ of $H$ that you are looking for is ${(n,1) : n in N }$, and the complement you are looking for is ${(phi'(gamma),gamma) : gamma in Gamma}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          Yes and Yes. The subgroup $N$ of $H$ that you are looking for is ${(n,1) : n in N }$, and the complement you are looking for is ${(phi'(gamma),gamma) : gamma in Gamma}$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered yesterday









          Derek Holt

          52k53468




          52k53468












          • Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
            – BharatRam
            yesterday










          • I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
            – Derek Holt
            yesterday


















          • Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
            – BharatRam
            yesterday










          • I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
            – Derek Holt
            yesterday
















          Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
          – BharatRam
          yesterday




          Hello, thanks for the answer. But if you have time, could you please elaborate more? I still can't see why the existence of the lift in the diagram forces $H$ to be a semi-direct product. What is the action of $Gamma$ on $N$ for instance? Thanks!
          – BharatRam
          yesterday












          I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
          – Derek Holt
          yesterday




          I am not sure what there is to elaborate. I have given a definition of a specific complement of $N$ in $Gamma$. The existence of a complement is equivalent to the extension being a semidirect product.
          – Derek Holt
          yesterday


















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