Potential energy of system or particle of the system?












0














Why in gravitational potential or also electrical potential energy we refer to potential energy of 1 particle of the system and not whole system? for example in system earth and a ball we speak about the potential energy of ball at height $h$. Why we dont include earth? Same happens with electric potential energy where we refer to potential energy of a single electron or charged particle










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    There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
    – GiorgioP
    Dec 8 at 19:19


















0














Why in gravitational potential or also electrical potential energy we refer to potential energy of 1 particle of the system and not whole system? for example in system earth and a ball we speak about the potential energy of ball at height $h$. Why we dont include earth? Same happens with electric potential energy where we refer to potential energy of a single electron or charged particle










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
    – GiorgioP
    Dec 8 at 19:19
















0












0








0


1





Why in gravitational potential or also electrical potential energy we refer to potential energy of 1 particle of the system and not whole system? for example in system earth and a ball we speak about the potential energy of ball at height $h$. Why we dont include earth? Same happens with electric potential energy where we refer to potential energy of a single electron or charged particle










share|cite|improve this question















Why in gravitational potential or also electrical potential energy we refer to potential energy of 1 particle of the system and not whole system? for example in system earth and a ball we speak about the potential energy of ball at height $h$. Why we dont include earth? Same happens with electric potential energy where we refer to potential energy of a single electron or charged particle







newtonian-mechanics potential-energy






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edited Dec 8 at 18:52









Qmechanic

101k121831145




101k121831145










asked Dec 8 at 18:38









ado sar

30110




30110








  • 2




    There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
    – GiorgioP
    Dec 8 at 19:19
















  • 2




    There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
    – GiorgioP
    Dec 8 at 19:19










2




2




There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
– GiorgioP
Dec 8 at 19:19






There is already an answer to a similar question here: physics.stackexchange.com/q/440099
– GiorgioP
Dec 8 at 19:19












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















1














As you suspect, we should refer to the potential energy of the system.

More specifically, the potential energy is a property of an interaction (not of just one particle).



Here is a quote from a textbook that emphasizes this point




Six Ideas that Shaped Physics - Unit C (Thomas Moore) - 2nd edition, p.105

Exercise C6X.4


In circumstances where an object interacts with the earth, it is tempting to
think of the potential energy as belonging to the object instead of the interaction,
since the potential energy varies as the object changes position (the earth
seems fixed). Many textbooks in fact would say that "the object's potential
energy is converted to kinetic energy" as it falls. Why is this kind of language
not helpful when the interacting objects have comparable mass?







share|cite|improve this answer





















  • yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
    – ado sar
    Dec 8 at 23:32










  • What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
    – robphy
    Dec 8 at 23:42





















1














Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more interacting objects.



We usually refer to the potential energy associated with just one of the objects but it would be more appropriate to assert 'potential energy associated with the system'.



Actually it would be incorrect to link the potential energy to just one of the objects, ignoring the Earth (for example).






share|cite|improve this answer





























    0














    First of all when we usually refer to the gravitational potential energy or electrostatic potential energy in most common cases, we usually refers to that due to earth(grav. Pot.)or a unit positive carge (electro. Pot.). Secondally we usually don't use that term for a system of particle in most common use to make calculations simpler .For example if you consider gravitational potential energy of yourself




    • which is $$(-GMm/r)$$
      Where r is the diatance of your body from centre of earth ,M mass of earth., m is your mass,G is universal gravitational constant.


    • Now if you consider that for a system of particle for your body you should spoose to write


    • $$P.E=((-GMm1)/r1)+((-GMm2)/r2)+........((-GMmn)/rn)$$
      where $$m1,m2,.... mn$$ are the masses of different particles of your body and $$r1,r2,....rn$$ are distances of different particles of your body from centre of earth .Now your height will be like 2metre which can be ignored if you see radius of earth that is $$6.4×10^6m$$ so all of the distances $$r1,r2.....rn$$ will nearly be equal and add up to give you the same result as calculated by equation for single particle system.







    share|cite|improve this answer





























      0














      My answer will depart in some respects from the others I've seen.
      Yes of course,




      Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more
      interacting objects.




      as JD_PM (and all others, myself included) do say. But I ask to
      anybody: are you sure you (and me) never used potential energy the
      other way, as a quantity pertaining to a single body in a given
      environment?



      Just an example among thousands possible. An electron is accelerated
      between two electrodes, with a potential difference 200 volt. If the
      electron starts from rest, find its final velocity.



      There is someone who would attribute the potential energy to the whole
      system in solving this problem? (And it would be far from trivial:
      what is exactly the whole system? Electron + electrodes? Or should we
      include the electric field? And why not the generator?)



      In short: there are a lot of situations where to attribute potential
      energy to a single body is a perfectly legitimate approximation. So
      good, to be sure, that it would sound ridiculous to worry about it.
      Surely all problems of motion of a body in Earth's gravitational field
      are part of the set. The only exception I can see is Moon.



      It's not only "to make calculations simpler": It's that in most cases
      we couldn't observe the difference. We are out of experimental
      possibilities for several orders of magnitude. It's an important part
      of a physicist's skill to be able to identify what objects, actions,
      effects, are relevant for a given problem and for the desired level of
      accuracy.



      A little numbers just to show OP how things go as Earth is concerned.
      (Physics without numbers is often just chatter.) Consider ISS, whose
      mass is $4cdot10^5,mathrm{kg}$. Its speed is about
      $8,mathrm{km/s}$. Then kinetic energy is $1.3cdot10^{13},mathrm
      J$
      . Now think of Earth. Its mass is over $10^{19}$ times larger, so in
      the common c.o.m. frame its speed will be less in the same ratio, and
      the same for kinetic energy (can you see why? velocity enters
      squared). So we find for Earth's KE something like
      $10^{-6},mathrm J$. Can you imagine how small an energy is it?



      I reasoned on kinetic energies, but my argument holds for potential
      energy too. Should ISS' KE be brought to zero, because an
      irrealistic orbit change, an equivalent gain in potential energy would be
      produced. Neglecting Earth's contribution we would err by
      $10^{-6},mathrm J$ in about $10^{13}$.



      Now an exercise for OP. Try a similar estimate for the electron's
      problem. Then examine the Sun-Jupiter system: what can you say about
      it?






      share|cite|improve this answer





















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        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes








        4 Answers
        4






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        1














        As you suspect, we should refer to the potential energy of the system.

        More specifically, the potential energy is a property of an interaction (not of just one particle).



        Here is a quote from a textbook that emphasizes this point




        Six Ideas that Shaped Physics - Unit C (Thomas Moore) - 2nd edition, p.105

        Exercise C6X.4


        In circumstances where an object interacts with the earth, it is tempting to
        think of the potential energy as belonging to the object instead of the interaction,
        since the potential energy varies as the object changes position (the earth
        seems fixed). Many textbooks in fact would say that "the object's potential
        energy is converted to kinetic energy" as it falls. Why is this kind of language
        not helpful when the interacting objects have comparable mass?







        share|cite|improve this answer





















        • yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
          – ado sar
          Dec 8 at 23:32










        • What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
          – robphy
          Dec 8 at 23:42


















        1














        As you suspect, we should refer to the potential energy of the system.

        More specifically, the potential energy is a property of an interaction (not of just one particle).



        Here is a quote from a textbook that emphasizes this point




        Six Ideas that Shaped Physics - Unit C (Thomas Moore) - 2nd edition, p.105

        Exercise C6X.4


        In circumstances where an object interacts with the earth, it is tempting to
        think of the potential energy as belonging to the object instead of the interaction,
        since the potential energy varies as the object changes position (the earth
        seems fixed). Many textbooks in fact would say that "the object's potential
        energy is converted to kinetic energy" as it falls. Why is this kind of language
        not helpful when the interacting objects have comparable mass?







        share|cite|improve this answer





















        • yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
          – ado sar
          Dec 8 at 23:32










        • What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
          – robphy
          Dec 8 at 23:42
















        1












        1








        1






        As you suspect, we should refer to the potential energy of the system.

        More specifically, the potential energy is a property of an interaction (not of just one particle).



        Here is a quote from a textbook that emphasizes this point




        Six Ideas that Shaped Physics - Unit C (Thomas Moore) - 2nd edition, p.105

        Exercise C6X.4


        In circumstances where an object interacts with the earth, it is tempting to
        think of the potential energy as belonging to the object instead of the interaction,
        since the potential energy varies as the object changes position (the earth
        seems fixed). Many textbooks in fact would say that "the object's potential
        energy is converted to kinetic energy" as it falls. Why is this kind of language
        not helpful when the interacting objects have comparable mass?







        share|cite|improve this answer












        As you suspect, we should refer to the potential energy of the system.

        More specifically, the potential energy is a property of an interaction (not of just one particle).



        Here is a quote from a textbook that emphasizes this point




        Six Ideas that Shaped Physics - Unit C (Thomas Moore) - 2nd edition, p.105

        Exercise C6X.4


        In circumstances where an object interacts with the earth, it is tempting to
        think of the potential energy as belonging to the object instead of the interaction,
        since the potential energy varies as the object changes position (the earth
        seems fixed). Many textbooks in fact would say that "the object's potential
        energy is converted to kinetic energy" as it falls. Why is this kind of language
        not helpful when the interacting objects have comparable mass?








        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Dec 8 at 19:18









        robphy

        1,817138




        1,817138












        • yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
          – ado sar
          Dec 8 at 23:32










        • What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
          – robphy
          Dec 8 at 23:42




















        • yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
          – ado sar
          Dec 8 at 23:32










        • What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
          – robphy
          Dec 8 at 23:42


















        yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
        – ado sar
        Dec 8 at 23:32




        yes but also earth is moving towards the object so it has kinetic energy...can we consider it negligible as it has 6*10^24 kg ? i know the speed is very very small but what if we multiply it by mass of earth ?
        – ado sar
        Dec 8 at 23:32












        What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
        – robphy
        Dec 8 at 23:42






        What is physically important are the energy changes.... not the values of the energies (which are frame dependent and reference dependent).
        – robphy
        Dec 8 at 23:42













        1














        Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more interacting objects.



        We usually refer to the potential energy associated with just one of the objects but it would be more appropriate to assert 'potential energy associated with the system'.



        Actually it would be incorrect to link the potential energy to just one of the objects, ignoring the Earth (for example).






        share|cite|improve this answer


























          1














          Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more interacting objects.



          We usually refer to the potential energy associated with just one of the objects but it would be more appropriate to assert 'potential energy associated with the system'.



          Actually it would be incorrect to link the potential energy to just one of the objects, ignoring the Earth (for example).






          share|cite|improve this answer
























            1












            1








            1






            Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more interacting objects.



            We usually refer to the potential energy associated with just one of the objects but it would be more appropriate to assert 'potential energy associated with the system'.



            Actually it would be incorrect to link the potential energy to just one of the objects, ignoring the Earth (for example).






            share|cite|improve this answer












            Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more interacting objects.



            We usually refer to the potential energy associated with just one of the objects but it would be more appropriate to assert 'potential energy associated with the system'.



            Actually it would be incorrect to link the potential energy to just one of the objects, ignoring the Earth (for example).







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Dec 8 at 19:26









            JD_PM

            14412




            14412























                0














                First of all when we usually refer to the gravitational potential energy or electrostatic potential energy in most common cases, we usually refers to that due to earth(grav. Pot.)or a unit positive carge (electro. Pot.). Secondally we usually don't use that term for a system of particle in most common use to make calculations simpler .For example if you consider gravitational potential energy of yourself




                • which is $$(-GMm/r)$$
                  Where r is the diatance of your body from centre of earth ,M mass of earth., m is your mass,G is universal gravitational constant.


                • Now if you consider that for a system of particle for your body you should spoose to write


                • $$P.E=((-GMm1)/r1)+((-GMm2)/r2)+........((-GMmn)/rn)$$
                  where $$m1,m2,.... mn$$ are the masses of different particles of your body and $$r1,r2,....rn$$ are distances of different particles of your body from centre of earth .Now your height will be like 2metre which can be ignored if you see radius of earth that is $$6.4×10^6m$$ so all of the distances $$r1,r2.....rn$$ will nearly be equal and add up to give you the same result as calculated by equation for single particle system.







                share|cite|improve this answer


























                  0














                  First of all when we usually refer to the gravitational potential energy or electrostatic potential energy in most common cases, we usually refers to that due to earth(grav. Pot.)or a unit positive carge (electro. Pot.). Secondally we usually don't use that term for a system of particle in most common use to make calculations simpler .For example if you consider gravitational potential energy of yourself




                  • which is $$(-GMm/r)$$
                    Where r is the diatance of your body from centre of earth ,M mass of earth., m is your mass,G is universal gravitational constant.


                  • Now if you consider that for a system of particle for your body you should spoose to write


                  • $$P.E=((-GMm1)/r1)+((-GMm2)/r2)+........((-GMmn)/rn)$$
                    where $$m1,m2,.... mn$$ are the masses of different particles of your body and $$r1,r2,....rn$$ are distances of different particles of your body from centre of earth .Now your height will be like 2metre which can be ignored if you see radius of earth that is $$6.4×10^6m$$ so all of the distances $$r1,r2.....rn$$ will nearly be equal and add up to give you the same result as calculated by equation for single particle system.







                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                    0












                    0








                    0






                    First of all when we usually refer to the gravitational potential energy or electrostatic potential energy in most common cases, we usually refers to that due to earth(grav. Pot.)or a unit positive carge (electro. Pot.). Secondally we usually don't use that term for a system of particle in most common use to make calculations simpler .For example if you consider gravitational potential energy of yourself




                    • which is $$(-GMm/r)$$
                      Where r is the diatance of your body from centre of earth ,M mass of earth., m is your mass,G is universal gravitational constant.


                    • Now if you consider that for a system of particle for your body you should spoose to write


                    • $$P.E=((-GMm1)/r1)+((-GMm2)/r2)+........((-GMmn)/rn)$$
                      where $$m1,m2,.... mn$$ are the masses of different particles of your body and $$r1,r2,....rn$$ are distances of different particles of your body from centre of earth .Now your height will be like 2metre which can be ignored if you see radius of earth that is $$6.4×10^6m$$ so all of the distances $$r1,r2.....rn$$ will nearly be equal and add up to give you the same result as calculated by equation for single particle system.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    First of all when we usually refer to the gravitational potential energy or electrostatic potential energy in most common cases, we usually refers to that due to earth(grav. Pot.)or a unit positive carge (electro. Pot.). Secondally we usually don't use that term for a system of particle in most common use to make calculations simpler .For example if you consider gravitational potential energy of yourself




                    • which is $$(-GMm/r)$$
                      Where r is the diatance of your body from centre of earth ,M mass of earth., m is your mass,G is universal gravitational constant.


                    • Now if you consider that for a system of particle for your body you should spoose to write


                    • $$P.E=((-GMm1)/r1)+((-GMm2)/r2)+........((-GMmn)/rn)$$
                      where $$m1,m2,.... mn$$ are the masses of different particles of your body and $$r1,r2,....rn$$ are distances of different particles of your body from centre of earth .Now your height will be like 2metre which can be ignored if you see radius of earth that is $$6.4×10^6m$$ so all of the distances $$r1,r2.....rn$$ will nearly be equal and add up to give you the same result as calculated by equation for single particle system.








                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Dec 8 at 19:23









                    Sourabh

                    15411




                    15411























                        0














                        My answer will depart in some respects from the others I've seen.
                        Yes of course,




                        Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more
                        interacting objects.




                        as JD_PM (and all others, myself included) do say. But I ask to
                        anybody: are you sure you (and me) never used potential energy the
                        other way, as a quantity pertaining to a single body in a given
                        environment?



                        Just an example among thousands possible. An electron is accelerated
                        between two electrodes, with a potential difference 200 volt. If the
                        electron starts from rest, find its final velocity.



                        There is someone who would attribute the potential energy to the whole
                        system in solving this problem? (And it would be far from trivial:
                        what is exactly the whole system? Electron + electrodes? Or should we
                        include the electric field? And why not the generator?)



                        In short: there are a lot of situations where to attribute potential
                        energy to a single body is a perfectly legitimate approximation. So
                        good, to be sure, that it would sound ridiculous to worry about it.
                        Surely all problems of motion of a body in Earth's gravitational field
                        are part of the set. The only exception I can see is Moon.



                        It's not only "to make calculations simpler": It's that in most cases
                        we couldn't observe the difference. We are out of experimental
                        possibilities for several orders of magnitude. It's an important part
                        of a physicist's skill to be able to identify what objects, actions,
                        effects, are relevant for a given problem and for the desired level of
                        accuracy.



                        A little numbers just to show OP how things go as Earth is concerned.
                        (Physics without numbers is often just chatter.) Consider ISS, whose
                        mass is $4cdot10^5,mathrm{kg}$. Its speed is about
                        $8,mathrm{km/s}$. Then kinetic energy is $1.3cdot10^{13},mathrm
                        J$
                        . Now think of Earth. Its mass is over $10^{19}$ times larger, so in
                        the common c.o.m. frame its speed will be less in the same ratio, and
                        the same for kinetic energy (can you see why? velocity enters
                        squared). So we find for Earth's KE something like
                        $10^{-6},mathrm J$. Can you imagine how small an energy is it?



                        I reasoned on kinetic energies, but my argument holds for potential
                        energy too. Should ISS' KE be brought to zero, because an
                        irrealistic orbit change, an equivalent gain in potential energy would be
                        produced. Neglecting Earth's contribution we would err by
                        $10^{-6},mathrm J$ in about $10^{13}$.



                        Now an exercise for OP. Try a similar estimate for the electron's
                        problem. Then examine the Sun-Jupiter system: what can you say about
                        it?






                        share|cite|improve this answer


























                          0














                          My answer will depart in some respects from the others I've seen.
                          Yes of course,




                          Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more
                          interacting objects.




                          as JD_PM (and all others, myself included) do say. But I ask to
                          anybody: are you sure you (and me) never used potential energy the
                          other way, as a quantity pertaining to a single body in a given
                          environment?



                          Just an example among thousands possible. An electron is accelerated
                          between two electrodes, with a potential difference 200 volt. If the
                          electron starts from rest, find its final velocity.



                          There is someone who would attribute the potential energy to the whole
                          system in solving this problem? (And it would be far from trivial:
                          what is exactly the whole system? Electron + electrodes? Or should we
                          include the electric field? And why not the generator?)



                          In short: there are a lot of situations where to attribute potential
                          energy to a single body is a perfectly legitimate approximation. So
                          good, to be sure, that it would sound ridiculous to worry about it.
                          Surely all problems of motion of a body in Earth's gravitational field
                          are part of the set. The only exception I can see is Moon.



                          It's not only "to make calculations simpler": It's that in most cases
                          we couldn't observe the difference. We are out of experimental
                          possibilities for several orders of magnitude. It's an important part
                          of a physicist's skill to be able to identify what objects, actions,
                          effects, are relevant for a given problem and for the desired level of
                          accuracy.



                          A little numbers just to show OP how things go as Earth is concerned.
                          (Physics without numbers is often just chatter.) Consider ISS, whose
                          mass is $4cdot10^5,mathrm{kg}$. Its speed is about
                          $8,mathrm{km/s}$. Then kinetic energy is $1.3cdot10^{13},mathrm
                          J$
                          . Now think of Earth. Its mass is over $10^{19}$ times larger, so in
                          the common c.o.m. frame its speed will be less in the same ratio, and
                          the same for kinetic energy (can you see why? velocity enters
                          squared). So we find for Earth's KE something like
                          $10^{-6},mathrm J$. Can you imagine how small an energy is it?



                          I reasoned on kinetic energies, but my argument holds for potential
                          energy too. Should ISS' KE be brought to zero, because an
                          irrealistic orbit change, an equivalent gain in potential energy would be
                          produced. Neglecting Earth's contribution we would err by
                          $10^{-6},mathrm J$ in about $10^{13}$.



                          Now an exercise for OP. Try a similar estimate for the electron's
                          problem. Then examine the Sun-Jupiter system: what can you say about
                          it?






                          share|cite|improve this answer
























                            0












                            0








                            0






                            My answer will depart in some respects from the others I've seen.
                            Yes of course,




                            Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more
                            interacting objects.




                            as JD_PM (and all others, myself included) do say. But I ask to
                            anybody: are you sure you (and me) never used potential energy the
                            other way, as a quantity pertaining to a single body in a given
                            environment?



                            Just an example among thousands possible. An electron is accelerated
                            between two electrodes, with a potential difference 200 volt. If the
                            electron starts from rest, find its final velocity.



                            There is someone who would attribute the potential energy to the whole
                            system in solving this problem? (And it would be far from trivial:
                            what is exactly the whole system? Electron + electrodes? Or should we
                            include the electric field? And why not the generator?)



                            In short: there are a lot of situations where to attribute potential
                            energy to a single body is a perfectly legitimate approximation. So
                            good, to be sure, that it would sound ridiculous to worry about it.
                            Surely all problems of motion of a body in Earth's gravitational field
                            are part of the set. The only exception I can see is Moon.



                            It's not only "to make calculations simpler": It's that in most cases
                            we couldn't observe the difference. We are out of experimental
                            possibilities for several orders of magnitude. It's an important part
                            of a physicist's skill to be able to identify what objects, actions,
                            effects, are relevant for a given problem and for the desired level of
                            accuracy.



                            A little numbers just to show OP how things go as Earth is concerned.
                            (Physics without numbers is often just chatter.) Consider ISS, whose
                            mass is $4cdot10^5,mathrm{kg}$. Its speed is about
                            $8,mathrm{km/s}$. Then kinetic energy is $1.3cdot10^{13},mathrm
                            J$
                            . Now think of Earth. Its mass is over $10^{19}$ times larger, so in
                            the common c.o.m. frame its speed will be less in the same ratio, and
                            the same for kinetic energy (can you see why? velocity enters
                            squared). So we find for Earth's KE something like
                            $10^{-6},mathrm J$. Can you imagine how small an energy is it?



                            I reasoned on kinetic energies, but my argument holds for potential
                            energy too. Should ISS' KE be brought to zero, because an
                            irrealistic orbit change, an equivalent gain in potential energy would be
                            produced. Neglecting Earth's contribution we would err by
                            $10^{-6},mathrm J$ in about $10^{13}$.



                            Now an exercise for OP. Try a similar estimate for the electron's
                            problem. Then examine the Sun-Jupiter system: what can you say about
                            it?






                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            My answer will depart in some respects from the others I've seen.
                            Yes of course,




                            Potential energy is always associated with a system of two or more
                            interacting objects.




                            as JD_PM (and all others, myself included) do say. But I ask to
                            anybody: are you sure you (and me) never used potential energy the
                            other way, as a quantity pertaining to a single body in a given
                            environment?



                            Just an example among thousands possible. An electron is accelerated
                            between two electrodes, with a potential difference 200 volt. If the
                            electron starts from rest, find its final velocity.



                            There is someone who would attribute the potential energy to the whole
                            system in solving this problem? (And it would be far from trivial:
                            what is exactly the whole system? Electron + electrodes? Or should we
                            include the electric field? And why not the generator?)



                            In short: there are a lot of situations where to attribute potential
                            energy to a single body is a perfectly legitimate approximation. So
                            good, to be sure, that it would sound ridiculous to worry about it.
                            Surely all problems of motion of a body in Earth's gravitational field
                            are part of the set. The only exception I can see is Moon.



                            It's not only "to make calculations simpler": It's that in most cases
                            we couldn't observe the difference. We are out of experimental
                            possibilities for several orders of magnitude. It's an important part
                            of a physicist's skill to be able to identify what objects, actions,
                            effects, are relevant for a given problem and for the desired level of
                            accuracy.



                            A little numbers just to show OP how things go as Earth is concerned.
                            (Physics without numbers is often just chatter.) Consider ISS, whose
                            mass is $4cdot10^5,mathrm{kg}$. Its speed is about
                            $8,mathrm{km/s}$. Then kinetic energy is $1.3cdot10^{13},mathrm
                            J$
                            . Now think of Earth. Its mass is over $10^{19}$ times larger, so in
                            the common c.o.m. frame its speed will be less in the same ratio, and
                            the same for kinetic energy (can you see why? velocity enters
                            squared). So we find for Earth's KE something like
                            $10^{-6},mathrm J$. Can you imagine how small an energy is it?



                            I reasoned on kinetic energies, but my argument holds for potential
                            energy too. Should ISS' KE be brought to zero, because an
                            irrealistic orbit change, an equivalent gain in potential energy would be
                            produced. Neglecting Earth's contribution we would err by
                            $10^{-6},mathrm J$ in about $10^{13}$.



                            Now an exercise for OP. Try a similar estimate for the electron's
                            problem. Then examine the Sun-Jupiter system: what can you say about
                            it?







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Dec 10 at 17:14









                            Elio Fabri

                            2,2971112




                            2,2971112






























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