Is this description of “ordinary induction” from Velleman's *How to Prove It* correct?
$begingroup$
The following is from How to Prove It: A Structured Approach, 2nd edition, by Daniel J. Velleman, page 289.
To see why strong induction works, it might help if we first review briefly why
ordinary induction works. Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us
to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has
some property $P$. The base case gets the process started, and the induction step
shows that the process can always be continued from one number to the next.
But note that in this process, by the time we check that some natural number
$n$ has the property $P$, we've already checked that all smaller numbers have the property. In other words, we already know that $∀k < nP(k)$. The idea behind
strong induction is that we should be allowed to use this information in our
proof of $P(n)$.
That characterization of "ordinary induction" is certainly not how I think of standard (not strong) complete induction. I think of it as showing that $Pleft[1right]$ holds (the initial case) and then showing that $Pleft[nright]implies{Pleft[n+1right]}$, where $Pleft[nright]$ is called the induction hypothesis, and $Pleft[nright]mapsto{Pleft[n+1right]}$ is the induction step.
Are these characterizations of complete induction mutually contradictory? Are they essentially the same?
induction definition proof-theory
$endgroup$
|
show 10 more comments
$begingroup$
The following is from How to Prove It: A Structured Approach, 2nd edition, by Daniel J. Velleman, page 289.
To see why strong induction works, it might help if we first review briefly why
ordinary induction works. Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us
to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has
some property $P$. The base case gets the process started, and the induction step
shows that the process can always be continued from one number to the next.
But note that in this process, by the time we check that some natural number
$n$ has the property $P$, we've already checked that all smaller numbers have the property. In other words, we already know that $∀k < nP(k)$. The idea behind
strong induction is that we should be allowed to use this information in our
proof of $P(n)$.
That characterization of "ordinary induction" is certainly not how I think of standard (not strong) complete induction. I think of it as showing that $Pleft[1right]$ holds (the initial case) and then showing that $Pleft[nright]implies{Pleft[n+1right]}$, where $Pleft[nright]$ is called the induction hypothesis, and $Pleft[nright]mapsto{Pleft[n+1right]}$ is the induction step.
Are these characterizations of complete induction mutually contradictory? Are they essentially the same?
induction definition proof-theory
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
2
$begingroup$
I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
1
$begingroup$
Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06
|
show 10 more comments
$begingroup$
The following is from How to Prove It: A Structured Approach, 2nd edition, by Daniel J. Velleman, page 289.
To see why strong induction works, it might help if we first review briefly why
ordinary induction works. Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us
to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has
some property $P$. The base case gets the process started, and the induction step
shows that the process can always be continued from one number to the next.
But note that in this process, by the time we check that some natural number
$n$ has the property $P$, we've already checked that all smaller numbers have the property. In other words, we already know that $∀k < nP(k)$. The idea behind
strong induction is that we should be allowed to use this information in our
proof of $P(n)$.
That characterization of "ordinary induction" is certainly not how I think of standard (not strong) complete induction. I think of it as showing that $Pleft[1right]$ holds (the initial case) and then showing that $Pleft[nright]implies{Pleft[n+1right]}$, where $Pleft[nright]$ is called the induction hypothesis, and $Pleft[nright]mapsto{Pleft[n+1right]}$ is the induction step.
Are these characterizations of complete induction mutually contradictory? Are they essentially the same?
induction definition proof-theory
$endgroup$
The following is from How to Prove It: A Structured Approach, 2nd edition, by Daniel J. Velleman, page 289.
To see why strong induction works, it might help if we first review briefly why
ordinary induction works. Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us
to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has
some property $P$. The base case gets the process started, and the induction step
shows that the process can always be continued from one number to the next.
But note that in this process, by the time we check that some natural number
$n$ has the property $P$, we've already checked that all smaller numbers have the property. In other words, we already know that $∀k < nP(k)$. The idea behind
strong induction is that we should be allowed to use this information in our
proof of $P(n)$.
That characterization of "ordinary induction" is certainly not how I think of standard (not strong) complete induction. I think of it as showing that $Pleft[1right]$ holds (the initial case) and then showing that $Pleft[nright]implies{Pleft[n+1right]}$, where $Pleft[nright]$ is called the induction hypothesis, and $Pleft[nright]mapsto{Pleft[n+1right]}$ is the induction step.
Are these characterizations of complete induction mutually contradictory? Are they essentially the same?
induction definition proof-theory
induction definition proof-theory
edited Jan 7 at 18:48
Steven Hatton
asked Jan 7 at 18:26
Steven HattonSteven Hatton
975422
975422
1
$begingroup$
You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
2
$begingroup$
I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
1
$begingroup$
Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06
|
show 10 more comments
1
$begingroup$
You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
2
$begingroup$
I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
1
$begingroup$
Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06
1
1
$begingroup$
You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
$begingroup$
You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
2
2
$begingroup$
I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
$begingroup$
I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
$endgroup$
– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
1
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
1
1
$begingroup$
Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
$begingroup$
Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
1
1
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06
$begingroup$
@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
$endgroup$
– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06
|
show 10 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
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$begingroup$
The phrase "recall that" in the quoted paragraph makes it clear that this paragraph is referring back to an earlier explanation of why ordinary induction works. It would be helpful to go back and look at that earlier explanation. Induction is introduced on p. 260, and the definition is the usual one: Prove $P(0)$ (the base case) and then prove $forall n in mathbb{N}(P(n) to P(n+1))$ (the induction step). (Some people include 0 in the natural numbers and some don't. In How To Prove It, 0 is included.) On p. 262 there is an explanation of why induction works. That explanation is that the base case proves that $P(0)$ is true. Plugging in $n=0$ in the induction step you get $P(0) to P(1)$, and from $P(0)$ and $P(0) to P(1)$ you get $P(1)$. Then plugging in $n=1$ in the induction step you get $P(1) to P(2)$, and from $P(1)$ and $P(1) to P(2)$ you get $P(2)$, etc. The explanation ends with the statement "Continuing in this way, you should be able to see that by repeatedly applying the induction step you can show that $P(n)$ must be true for every natural number $n$." When you carry out this process of starting with the base case and then repeatedly applying the induction step, you confirm first $P(0)$, then $P(1)$, then $P(2)$, and so on. It is this process that I was referring to in the sentence "Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has some property $P$."
Notice that the quoted passage says that mathematical induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order, it doesn't say that a proof by induction consists of going through the natural numbers in order. A proof by induction consists of a base case and an induction step. But if you've proven the base case and the induction step, then that would enable you to go through the natural numbers in order and verify that they all have property $P$, as described above. And that's why induction works. For example, if you've done a proof by induction, why is, say, $P(10)$ true? The answer is that you have to start with $P(0)$ and apply the induction step 10 times to work your way from $P(0)$ up through $P(1)$, $P(2)$, and so on up to $P(10)$.
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$begingroup$
The phrase "recall that" in the quoted paragraph makes it clear that this paragraph is referring back to an earlier explanation of why ordinary induction works. It would be helpful to go back and look at that earlier explanation. Induction is introduced on p. 260, and the definition is the usual one: Prove $P(0)$ (the base case) and then prove $forall n in mathbb{N}(P(n) to P(n+1))$ (the induction step). (Some people include 0 in the natural numbers and some don't. In How To Prove It, 0 is included.) On p. 262 there is an explanation of why induction works. That explanation is that the base case proves that $P(0)$ is true. Plugging in $n=0$ in the induction step you get $P(0) to P(1)$, and from $P(0)$ and $P(0) to P(1)$ you get $P(1)$. Then plugging in $n=1$ in the induction step you get $P(1) to P(2)$, and from $P(1)$ and $P(1) to P(2)$ you get $P(2)$, etc. The explanation ends with the statement "Continuing in this way, you should be able to see that by repeatedly applying the induction step you can show that $P(n)$ must be true for every natural number $n$." When you carry out this process of starting with the base case and then repeatedly applying the induction step, you confirm first $P(0)$, then $P(1)$, then $P(2)$, and so on. It is this process that I was referring to in the sentence "Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has some property $P$."
Notice that the quoted passage says that mathematical induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order, it doesn't say that a proof by induction consists of going through the natural numbers in order. A proof by induction consists of a base case and an induction step. But if you've proven the base case and the induction step, then that would enable you to go through the natural numbers in order and verify that they all have property $P$, as described above. And that's why induction works. For example, if you've done a proof by induction, why is, say, $P(10)$ true? The answer is that you have to start with $P(0)$ and apply the induction step 10 times to work your way from $P(0)$ up through $P(1)$, $P(2)$, and so on up to $P(10)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The phrase "recall that" in the quoted paragraph makes it clear that this paragraph is referring back to an earlier explanation of why ordinary induction works. It would be helpful to go back and look at that earlier explanation. Induction is introduced on p. 260, and the definition is the usual one: Prove $P(0)$ (the base case) and then prove $forall n in mathbb{N}(P(n) to P(n+1))$ (the induction step). (Some people include 0 in the natural numbers and some don't. In How To Prove It, 0 is included.) On p. 262 there is an explanation of why induction works. That explanation is that the base case proves that $P(0)$ is true. Plugging in $n=0$ in the induction step you get $P(0) to P(1)$, and from $P(0)$ and $P(0) to P(1)$ you get $P(1)$. Then plugging in $n=1$ in the induction step you get $P(1) to P(2)$, and from $P(1)$ and $P(1) to P(2)$ you get $P(2)$, etc. The explanation ends with the statement "Continuing in this way, you should be able to see that by repeatedly applying the induction step you can show that $P(n)$ must be true for every natural number $n$." When you carry out this process of starting with the base case and then repeatedly applying the induction step, you confirm first $P(0)$, then $P(1)$, then $P(2)$, and so on. It is this process that I was referring to in the sentence "Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has some property $P$."
Notice that the quoted passage says that mathematical induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order, it doesn't say that a proof by induction consists of going through the natural numbers in order. A proof by induction consists of a base case and an induction step. But if you've proven the base case and the induction step, then that would enable you to go through the natural numbers in order and verify that they all have property $P$, as described above. And that's why induction works. For example, if you've done a proof by induction, why is, say, $P(10)$ true? The answer is that you have to start with $P(0)$ and apply the induction step 10 times to work your way from $P(0)$ up through $P(1)$, $P(2)$, and so on up to $P(10)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The phrase "recall that" in the quoted paragraph makes it clear that this paragraph is referring back to an earlier explanation of why ordinary induction works. It would be helpful to go back and look at that earlier explanation. Induction is introduced on p. 260, and the definition is the usual one: Prove $P(0)$ (the base case) and then prove $forall n in mathbb{N}(P(n) to P(n+1))$ (the induction step). (Some people include 0 in the natural numbers and some don't. In How To Prove It, 0 is included.) On p. 262 there is an explanation of why induction works. That explanation is that the base case proves that $P(0)$ is true. Plugging in $n=0$ in the induction step you get $P(0) to P(1)$, and from $P(0)$ and $P(0) to P(1)$ you get $P(1)$. Then plugging in $n=1$ in the induction step you get $P(1) to P(2)$, and from $P(1)$ and $P(1) to P(2)$ you get $P(2)$, etc. The explanation ends with the statement "Continuing in this way, you should be able to see that by repeatedly applying the induction step you can show that $P(n)$ must be true for every natural number $n$." When you carry out this process of starting with the base case and then repeatedly applying the induction step, you confirm first $P(0)$, then $P(1)$, then $P(2)$, and so on. It is this process that I was referring to in the sentence "Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has some property $P$."
Notice that the quoted passage says that mathematical induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order, it doesn't say that a proof by induction consists of going through the natural numbers in order. A proof by induction consists of a base case and an induction step. But if you've proven the base case and the induction step, then that would enable you to go through the natural numbers in order and verify that they all have property $P$, as described above. And that's why induction works. For example, if you've done a proof by induction, why is, say, $P(10)$ true? The answer is that you have to start with $P(0)$ and apply the induction step 10 times to work your way from $P(0)$ up through $P(1)$, $P(2)$, and so on up to $P(10)$.
$endgroup$
The phrase "recall that" in the quoted paragraph makes it clear that this paragraph is referring back to an earlier explanation of why ordinary induction works. It would be helpful to go back and look at that earlier explanation. Induction is introduced on p. 260, and the definition is the usual one: Prove $P(0)$ (the base case) and then prove $forall n in mathbb{N}(P(n) to P(n+1))$ (the induction step). (Some people include 0 in the natural numbers and some don't. In How To Prove It, 0 is included.) On p. 262 there is an explanation of why induction works. That explanation is that the base case proves that $P(0)$ is true. Plugging in $n=0$ in the induction step you get $P(0) to P(1)$, and from $P(0)$ and $P(0) to P(1)$ you get $P(1)$. Then plugging in $n=1$ in the induction step you get $P(1) to P(2)$, and from $P(1)$ and $P(1) to P(2)$ you get $P(2)$, etc. The explanation ends with the statement "Continuing in this way, you should be able to see that by repeatedly applying the induction step you can show that $P(n)$ must be true for every natural number $n$." When you carry out this process of starting with the base case and then repeatedly applying the induction step, you confirm first $P(0)$, then $P(1)$, then $P(2)$, and so on. It is this process that I was referring to in the sentence "Recall that a proof by ordinary induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order and see that each of them has some property $P$."
Notice that the quoted passage says that mathematical induction enables us to go through all the natural numbers in order, it doesn't say that a proof by induction consists of going through the natural numbers in order. A proof by induction consists of a base case and an induction step. But if you've proven the base case and the induction step, then that would enable you to go through the natural numbers in order and verify that they all have property $P$, as described above. And that's why induction works. For example, if you've done a proof by induction, why is, say, $P(10)$ true? The answer is that you have to start with $P(0)$ and apply the induction step 10 times to work your way from $P(0)$ up through $P(1)$, $P(2)$, and so on up to $P(10)$.
edited Jan 8 at 19:47
answered Jan 8 at 19:24
Dan VellemanDan Velleman
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1
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You probably need to explain your concern a little better. There are two forms of (ordinary) mathematical induction, a weak form and a strong form. Velleman is talking about both of them, and you're talking about one of them. Is your concern the use of the terms, or why the seemingly stronger version is equivalent to the weaker version, or something else? Part of the problem is that you say "mutually contradictory". What does "mutually" contribute to simply being contradictory? Also, if P implies Q but Q does not imply P (what I think you're saying), that doesn't make "P and Q" always false.
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– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 18:41
2
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I'm still a bit unclear what the problem is, unless it's a specific method of formalizing the notion, such as functions being "rules of correspondence" vs. "subsets of a Cartesian product". Also, Velleman is explaining things in natural language at this point, and so he's not trying to adhere to any strict method of formalization.
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– Dave L. Renfro
Jan 7 at 19:32
1
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@StevenHatton That's the same thing - nobody here is using the natural language version of the word. Ordinary and strong induction are two forms of mathematical induction, which are equivalent in a precise sense.
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– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 19:58
1
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Dave Renfro's comment is exactly right: Vellman is giving an informal description of the idea behind (the usual phrasing of) mathematical induction. It's not literally an infinite process, of course, but one can think of the induction axiom as somehow "compressing" what would normally be an infinite process into a single step (fine, two steps). Is this a good informal description? Maybe - in my experience it's usually helpful but sometimes confusing. Is it a potentially mathematically useful one? In my opinion, yes (at least in some areas of mathematical logic). Just don't over-think it.
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– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:04
1
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@StevenHatton Yes, but so? Nowhere in this does natural-language induction appear. I really don't understand what your question is. As far as I can tell, all the relevant points are: $(i)$ what you call "standard complete induction" is often called "weak induction," is on-the-surface distinct from the thing called "strong induction," but is actually equivalent to it (in a precise sense); $(ii)$ both weak and strong induction are mathematical principles, not natural-language ideas; $(iii)$ Vellman's infinite-process description is just informal motivation. What does the above not address?
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– Noah Schweber
Jan 7 at 20:06