Discrete Probability: Uniform Random Permutations and Probability Equality











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Question:



a) Consider a uniformly random permutation of the set ${(1,2,...,50})$. Define the events:



A = "in the permutation, both $8$ and $4$ are to the left of both $1$ and $2$".



What is $Pr(A)$?




Answer: $frac{1}{6}$



Attempt:



I'm assuming that the $|S|$ is going to be $50!$ based on the permutation formula.



The tricky part is figuring out the event. From 50 positions, 2 positions of 8 and 4 should be fixed in a way that they are to the left of 1 and 2. Would that just be $50choose 4$ ways? I am very confused about how to count these.




Question:



b) Let A and B be two events in some sample space. You are given that:



$Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$



$Pr$($A$$cup$$B$) = $1$



$Pr$($A$$cap$$B$) $ > $ $0$



Which of the follwoing is true?



a) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $frac{1}{2}$



b) $Pr(A)$ $ > $ $frac{1}{2}$ (Answer)



c) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $1$



d) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $0$




Attempt:



I narrowed down the equations I needed to use to these:



1) $P(Acup B) = P(A) + P(B)-P(Acap B$).



2) $P(A|B) = frac{P(Acap B)}{ P(B)}$



I tried using the given condition with these equations to hopefully get the answer but I'm getting nowhere it seems.



Using 1) I tried getting $P(A)$



$1 = P(A) + P(A|B) / P(Acap B) - P(Acap B)$



$1 = P(A) + 2 [P(A|B) / 4 - 1]$



This was just not making sense. Don't know how else to get the right equality with the given conditions










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    up vote
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    Question:



    a) Consider a uniformly random permutation of the set ${(1,2,...,50})$. Define the events:



    A = "in the permutation, both $8$ and $4$ are to the left of both $1$ and $2$".



    What is $Pr(A)$?




    Answer: $frac{1}{6}$



    Attempt:



    I'm assuming that the $|S|$ is going to be $50!$ based on the permutation formula.



    The tricky part is figuring out the event. From 50 positions, 2 positions of 8 and 4 should be fixed in a way that they are to the left of 1 and 2. Would that just be $50choose 4$ ways? I am very confused about how to count these.




    Question:



    b) Let A and B be two events in some sample space. You are given that:



    $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$



    $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$) = $1$



    $Pr$($A$$cap$$B$) $ > $ $0$



    Which of the follwoing is true?



    a) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $frac{1}{2}$



    b) $Pr(A)$ $ > $ $frac{1}{2}$ (Answer)



    c) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $1$



    d) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $0$




    Attempt:



    I narrowed down the equations I needed to use to these:



    1) $P(Acup B) = P(A) + P(B)-P(Acap B$).



    2) $P(A|B) = frac{P(Acap B)}{ P(B)}$



    I tried using the given condition with these equations to hopefully get the answer but I'm getting nowhere it seems.



    Using 1) I tried getting $P(A)$



    $1 = P(A) + P(A|B) / P(Acap B) - P(Acap B)$



    $1 = P(A) + 2 [P(A|B) / 4 - 1]$



    This was just not making sense. Don't know how else to get the right equality with the given conditions










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite












      Question:



      a) Consider a uniformly random permutation of the set ${(1,2,...,50})$. Define the events:



      A = "in the permutation, both $8$ and $4$ are to the left of both $1$ and $2$".



      What is $Pr(A)$?




      Answer: $frac{1}{6}$



      Attempt:



      I'm assuming that the $|S|$ is going to be $50!$ based on the permutation formula.



      The tricky part is figuring out the event. From 50 positions, 2 positions of 8 and 4 should be fixed in a way that they are to the left of 1 and 2. Would that just be $50choose 4$ ways? I am very confused about how to count these.




      Question:



      b) Let A and B be two events in some sample space. You are given that:



      $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$



      $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$) = $1$



      $Pr$($A$$cap$$B$) $ > $ $0$



      Which of the follwoing is true?



      a) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $frac{1}{2}$



      b) $Pr(A)$ $ > $ $frac{1}{2}$ (Answer)



      c) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $1$



      d) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $0$




      Attempt:



      I narrowed down the equations I needed to use to these:



      1) $P(Acup B) = P(A) + P(B)-P(Acap B$).



      2) $P(A|B) = frac{P(Acap B)}{ P(B)}$



      I tried using the given condition with these equations to hopefully get the answer but I'm getting nowhere it seems.



      Using 1) I tried getting $P(A)$



      $1 = P(A) + P(A|B) / P(Acap B) - P(Acap B)$



      $1 = P(A) + 2 [P(A|B) / 4 - 1]$



      This was just not making sense. Don't know how else to get the right equality with the given conditions










      share|cite|improve this question
















      Question:



      a) Consider a uniformly random permutation of the set ${(1,2,...,50})$. Define the events:



      A = "in the permutation, both $8$ and $4$ are to the left of both $1$ and $2$".



      What is $Pr(A)$?




      Answer: $frac{1}{6}$



      Attempt:



      I'm assuming that the $|S|$ is going to be $50!$ based on the permutation formula.



      The tricky part is figuring out the event. From 50 positions, 2 positions of 8 and 4 should be fixed in a way that they are to the left of 1 and 2. Would that just be $50choose 4$ ways? I am very confused about how to count these.




      Question:



      b) Let A and B be two events in some sample space. You are given that:



      $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$



      $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$) = $1$



      $Pr$($A$$cap$$B$) $ > $ $0$



      Which of the follwoing is true?



      a) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $frac{1}{2}$



      b) $Pr(A)$ $ > $ $frac{1}{2}$ (Answer)



      c) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $1$



      d) $Pr(A)$ $ < $ $0$




      Attempt:



      I narrowed down the equations I needed to use to these:



      1) $P(Acup B) = P(A) + P(B)-P(Acap B$).



      2) $P(A|B) = frac{P(Acap B)}{ P(B)}$



      I tried using the given condition with these equations to hopefully get the answer but I'm getting nowhere it seems.



      Using 1) I tried getting $P(A)$



      $1 = P(A) + P(A|B) / P(Acap B) - P(Acap B)$



      $1 = P(A) + 2 [P(A|B) / 4 - 1]$



      This was just not making sense. Don't know how else to get the right equality with the given conditions







      probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics random-variables






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      edited 2 days ago









      greedoid

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      asked Dec 1 at 4:09









      Toby

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          2 Answers
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          a) For all those 4 numbers first you choose 4 places where are they going to stand in a permutation, that you can do on ${50choose 4}$ ways and then on first two among chosen are 8 and 4 and on the other two are 1 and 2, so we have two posibilites for 8 and 4 and two posibilites for 1 and 2. Thus $$P = {{50choose 4} cdot 4 cdot 46!over 50!} = {1over 6} $$



          b) Since $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$ we have $${P(Acap B)over P(B)} = {P(Acap B)over P(A)} implies P(A)= P(B)$$



          Now acording to PIE for probability we have $$1= P(Acup B) = P(A)+P(B) -P(Acap B) < 2P(A) - 0$$






          share|cite|improve this answer




























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            (a): There are $binom{50}{4}$ ways to choose where those four elements go, $(50-4)!$ ways to order the rest of the elements... and we don't care. All that matters is the relative order of those four elements, something that looks the same regardless of that choice. There are really only $4!$ possibilities that make a difference.



            (b): We can't find exactly what $P(A)$ is - but we can show that it's the same as $P(B)$, and use that to constrain them.






            share|cite|improve this answer








            New contributor




            jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
            Check out our Code of Conduct.


















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              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes








              up vote
              2
              down vote



              accepted










              a) For all those 4 numbers first you choose 4 places where are they going to stand in a permutation, that you can do on ${50choose 4}$ ways and then on first two among chosen are 8 and 4 and on the other two are 1 and 2, so we have two posibilites for 8 and 4 and two posibilites for 1 and 2. Thus $$P = {{50choose 4} cdot 4 cdot 46!over 50!} = {1over 6} $$



              b) Since $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$ we have $${P(Acap B)over P(B)} = {P(Acap B)over P(A)} implies P(A)= P(B)$$



              Now acording to PIE for probability we have $$1= P(Acup B) = P(A)+P(B) -P(Acap B) < 2P(A) - 0$$






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                2
                down vote



                accepted










                a) For all those 4 numbers first you choose 4 places where are they going to stand in a permutation, that you can do on ${50choose 4}$ ways and then on first two among chosen are 8 and 4 and on the other two are 1 and 2, so we have two posibilites for 8 and 4 and two posibilites for 1 and 2. Thus $$P = {{50choose 4} cdot 4 cdot 46!over 50!} = {1over 6} $$



                b) Since $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$ we have $${P(Acap B)over P(B)} = {P(Acap B)over P(A)} implies P(A)= P(B)$$



                Now acording to PIE for probability we have $$1= P(Acup B) = P(A)+P(B) -P(Acap B) < 2P(A) - 0$$






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote



                  accepted







                  up vote
                  2
                  down vote



                  accepted






                  a) For all those 4 numbers first you choose 4 places where are they going to stand in a permutation, that you can do on ${50choose 4}$ ways and then on first two among chosen are 8 and 4 and on the other two are 1 and 2, so we have two posibilites for 8 and 4 and two posibilites for 1 and 2. Thus $$P = {{50choose 4} cdot 4 cdot 46!over 50!} = {1over 6} $$



                  b) Since $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$ we have $${P(Acap B)over P(B)} = {P(Acap B)over P(A)} implies P(A)= P(B)$$



                  Now acording to PIE for probability we have $$1= P(Acup B) = P(A)+P(B) -P(Acap B) < 2P(A) - 0$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  a) For all those 4 numbers first you choose 4 places where are they going to stand in a permutation, that you can do on ${50choose 4}$ ways and then on first two among chosen are 8 and 4 and on the other two are 1 and 2, so we have two posibilites for 8 and 4 and two posibilites for 1 and 2. Thus $$P = {{50choose 4} cdot 4 cdot 46!over 50!} = {1over 6} $$



                  b) Since $Pr(A|B) = Pr(B|A)$ we have $${P(Acap B)over P(B)} = {P(Acap B)over P(A)} implies P(A)= P(B)$$



                  Now acording to PIE for probability we have $$1= P(Acup B) = P(A)+P(B) -P(Acap B) < 2P(A) - 0$$







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered 2 days ago









                  greedoid

                  35.6k114590




                  35.6k114590






















                      up vote
                      0
                      down vote













                      (a): There are $binom{50}{4}$ ways to choose where those four elements go, $(50-4)!$ ways to order the rest of the elements... and we don't care. All that matters is the relative order of those four elements, something that looks the same regardless of that choice. There are really only $4!$ possibilities that make a difference.



                      (b): We can't find exactly what $P(A)$ is - but we can show that it's the same as $P(B)$, and use that to constrain them.






                      share|cite|improve this answer








                      New contributor




                      jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                      Check out our Code of Conduct.






















                        up vote
                        0
                        down vote













                        (a): There are $binom{50}{4}$ ways to choose where those four elements go, $(50-4)!$ ways to order the rest of the elements... and we don't care. All that matters is the relative order of those four elements, something that looks the same regardless of that choice. There are really only $4!$ possibilities that make a difference.



                        (b): We can't find exactly what $P(A)$ is - but we can show that it's the same as $P(B)$, and use that to constrain them.






                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        New contributor




                        jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                        Check out our Code of Conduct.




















                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote









                          (a): There are $binom{50}{4}$ ways to choose where those four elements go, $(50-4)!$ ways to order the rest of the elements... and we don't care. All that matters is the relative order of those four elements, something that looks the same regardless of that choice. There are really only $4!$ possibilities that make a difference.



                          (b): We can't find exactly what $P(A)$ is - but we can show that it's the same as $P(B)$, and use that to constrain them.






                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          (a): There are $binom{50}{4}$ ways to choose where those four elements go, $(50-4)!$ ways to order the rest of the elements... and we don't care. All that matters is the relative order of those four elements, something that looks the same regardless of that choice. There are really only $4!$ possibilities that make a difference.



                          (b): We can't find exactly what $P(A)$ is - but we can show that it's the same as $P(B)$, and use that to constrain them.







                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          New contributor




                          jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer






                          New contributor




                          jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
                          Check out our Code of Conduct.









                          answered Dec 1 at 5:31









                          jmerry

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                          New contributor





                          jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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                          jmerry is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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