Discrete Probability: Uniformly random permutations of sets and Independent/Dependent
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Question:
a) Let $n$ $ge$ $3$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_n$ = n"
B = "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$"
Are these independent or dependent? Show why?
Attempt:
I have to show $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ to prove independence
If I take $n=3$: I get the set $({1,2,3})$ that can be arranged in $3$ ways that satisfy the
condition of "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$". This is out of the total $8$ choices.
So, $Pr(B)$ $=$ $frac{3}{8}$
For $Pr(A)$, I don't know what they mean by this. "$a_n$ = n". Isn't $a_n$ always going to be $n$? So, $Pr(A)$ = 1?
For $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $frac{3}{8}$ $.$ 1 = $frac{3}{8}$
$P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ = $frac{3}{8}$ = Independent!
Question:
b) Let $n$ $ge$ $5$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_1$ = 1"
B = "$a_n$ $=$ $5$"
What is $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$)?
a) $frac{1}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$
b) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$ (Answer)
c) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n^2}$
Attempt:
For $n=5$, I can find the $P(A)$, $P(B)$ to be $frac{1}{5}$
I have to show $P$($A$$cup$$B$) = $P(A) $ + $ P(B)$ $-$ $P$($A$$cap$$B$).
I am struggling to determine $P$($A$$cap$$B$) for this. Would it just be $frac{1}{5}$ $.$ $frac{1}{5}$? That doesn't give me the correct solution for $n=5$ which should be 0.35.
probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics permutations random-variables
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Question:
a) Let $n$ $ge$ $3$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_n$ = n"
B = "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$"
Are these independent or dependent? Show why?
Attempt:
I have to show $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ to prove independence
If I take $n=3$: I get the set $({1,2,3})$ that can be arranged in $3$ ways that satisfy the
condition of "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$". This is out of the total $8$ choices.
So, $Pr(B)$ $=$ $frac{3}{8}$
For $Pr(A)$, I don't know what they mean by this. "$a_n$ = n". Isn't $a_n$ always going to be $n$? So, $Pr(A)$ = 1?
For $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $frac{3}{8}$ $.$ 1 = $frac{3}{8}$
$P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ = $frac{3}{8}$ = Independent!
Question:
b) Let $n$ $ge$ $5$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_1$ = 1"
B = "$a_n$ $=$ $5$"
What is $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$)?
a) $frac{1}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$
b) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$ (Answer)
c) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n^2}$
Attempt:
For $n=5$, I can find the $P(A)$, $P(B)$ to be $frac{1}{5}$
I have to show $P$($A$$cup$$B$) = $P(A) $ + $ P(B)$ $-$ $P$($A$$cap$$B$).
I am struggling to determine $P$($A$$cap$$B$) for this. Would it just be $frac{1}{5}$ $.$ $frac{1}{5}$? That doesn't give me the correct solution for $n=5$ which should be 0.35.
probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics permutations random-variables
I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40
add a comment |
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0
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Question:
a) Let $n$ $ge$ $3$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_n$ = n"
B = "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$"
Are these independent or dependent? Show why?
Attempt:
I have to show $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ to prove independence
If I take $n=3$: I get the set $({1,2,3})$ that can be arranged in $3$ ways that satisfy the
condition of "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$". This is out of the total $8$ choices.
So, $Pr(B)$ $=$ $frac{3}{8}$
For $Pr(A)$, I don't know what they mean by this. "$a_n$ = n". Isn't $a_n$ always going to be $n$? So, $Pr(A)$ = 1?
For $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $frac{3}{8}$ $.$ 1 = $frac{3}{8}$
$P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ = $frac{3}{8}$ = Independent!
Question:
b) Let $n$ $ge$ $5$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_1$ = 1"
B = "$a_n$ $=$ $5$"
What is $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$)?
a) $frac{1}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$
b) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$ (Answer)
c) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n^2}$
Attempt:
For $n=5$, I can find the $P(A)$, $P(B)$ to be $frac{1}{5}$
I have to show $P$($A$$cup$$B$) = $P(A) $ + $ P(B)$ $-$ $P$($A$$cap$$B$).
I am struggling to determine $P$($A$$cap$$B$) for this. Would it just be $frac{1}{5}$ $.$ $frac{1}{5}$? That doesn't give me the correct solution for $n=5$ which should be 0.35.
probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics permutations random-variables
Question:
a) Let $n$ $ge$ $3$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_n$ = n"
B = "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$"
Are these independent or dependent? Show why?
Attempt:
I have to show $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ to prove independence
If I take $n=3$: I get the set $({1,2,3})$ that can be arranged in $3$ ways that satisfy the
condition of "$a_2$ $gt$ $a_1$". This is out of the total $8$ choices.
So, $Pr(B)$ $=$ $frac{3}{8}$
For $Pr(A)$, I don't know what they mean by this. "$a_n$ = n". Isn't $a_n$ always going to be $n$? So, $Pr(A)$ = 1?
For $P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $frac{3}{8}$ $.$ 1 = $frac{3}{8}$
$P$($A$$cap$$B$) = $P(A)P(B)$ = $frac{3}{8}$ = Independent!
Question:
b) Let $n$ $ge$ $5$ be an integer. Consider a uniformly random permutation $a_1$,$a_2$...$a_n$ of the set ${(1,2,...,n})$. Define the events:
A = "$a_1$ = 1"
B = "$a_n$ $=$ $5$"
What is $Pr$($A$$cup$$B$)?
a) $frac{1}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$
b) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n(n-1)}$ (Answer)
c) $frac{2}{n}$ $-$ $frac{1}{n^2}$
Attempt:
For $n=5$, I can find the $P(A)$, $P(B)$ to be $frac{1}{5}$
I have to show $P$($A$$cup$$B$) = $P(A) $ + $ P(B)$ $-$ $P$($A$$cap$$B$).
I am struggling to determine $P$($A$$cap$$B$) for this. Would it just be $frac{1}{5}$ $.$ $frac{1}{5}$? That doesn't give me the correct solution for $n=5$ which should be 0.35.
probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics permutations random-variables
probability probability-theory discrete-mathematics permutations random-variables
asked Dec 1 at 3:22
Toby
886
886
I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40
add a comment |
I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40
I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40
I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40
add a comment |
1 Answer
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(a)
If you have $3$ numbers and you permute them, you have only $3!=6$ possibilities.
$$Pr(B)=frac{1}{2}$$ from symmetry.
$$Pr(A)=frac1{n!}$$
since there is only one sequence that satisfies that condition.
Also $$Pr(A cap B)=Pr(A) ne Pr(A)Pr(B)$$
hence they are not independent.
(b)
$$Pr(A)=Pr(B)=frac{(n-1)!}{n!}=frac1n$$
$$Pr(Acap B)= frac{(n-2)!}{n!}=frac1{n(n-1)}$$
The idea is while two positions are fixed, we are free to permute the rest.
Try to avoid the temptation of thinking that $P(Acap B)=P(A)P(B)$ unless you can justify that they are independent.
add a comment |
1 Answer
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1 Answer
1
active
oldest
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active
oldest
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active
oldest
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up vote
1
down vote
(a)
If you have $3$ numbers and you permute them, you have only $3!=6$ possibilities.
$$Pr(B)=frac{1}{2}$$ from symmetry.
$$Pr(A)=frac1{n!}$$
since there is only one sequence that satisfies that condition.
Also $$Pr(A cap B)=Pr(A) ne Pr(A)Pr(B)$$
hence they are not independent.
(b)
$$Pr(A)=Pr(B)=frac{(n-1)!}{n!}=frac1n$$
$$Pr(Acap B)= frac{(n-2)!}{n!}=frac1{n(n-1)}$$
The idea is while two positions are fixed, we are free to permute the rest.
Try to avoid the temptation of thinking that $P(Acap B)=P(A)P(B)$ unless you can justify that they are independent.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
(a)
If you have $3$ numbers and you permute them, you have only $3!=6$ possibilities.
$$Pr(B)=frac{1}{2}$$ from symmetry.
$$Pr(A)=frac1{n!}$$
since there is only one sequence that satisfies that condition.
Also $$Pr(A cap B)=Pr(A) ne Pr(A)Pr(B)$$
hence they are not independent.
(b)
$$Pr(A)=Pr(B)=frac{(n-1)!}{n!}=frac1n$$
$$Pr(Acap B)= frac{(n-2)!}{n!}=frac1{n(n-1)}$$
The idea is while two positions are fixed, we are free to permute the rest.
Try to avoid the temptation of thinking that $P(Acap B)=P(A)P(B)$ unless you can justify that they are independent.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
(a)
If you have $3$ numbers and you permute them, you have only $3!=6$ possibilities.
$$Pr(B)=frac{1}{2}$$ from symmetry.
$$Pr(A)=frac1{n!}$$
since there is only one sequence that satisfies that condition.
Also $$Pr(A cap B)=Pr(A) ne Pr(A)Pr(B)$$
hence they are not independent.
(b)
$$Pr(A)=Pr(B)=frac{(n-1)!}{n!}=frac1n$$
$$Pr(Acap B)= frac{(n-2)!}{n!}=frac1{n(n-1)}$$
The idea is while two positions are fixed, we are free to permute the rest.
Try to avoid the temptation of thinking that $P(Acap B)=P(A)P(B)$ unless you can justify that they are independent.
(a)
If you have $3$ numbers and you permute them, you have only $3!=6$ possibilities.
$$Pr(B)=frac{1}{2}$$ from symmetry.
$$Pr(A)=frac1{n!}$$
since there is only one sequence that satisfies that condition.
Also $$Pr(A cap B)=Pr(A) ne Pr(A)Pr(B)$$
hence they are not independent.
(b)
$$Pr(A)=Pr(B)=frac{(n-1)!}{n!}=frac1n$$
$$Pr(Acap B)= frac{(n-2)!}{n!}=frac1{n(n-1)}$$
The idea is while two positions are fixed, we are free to permute the rest.
Try to avoid the temptation of thinking that $P(Acap B)=P(A)P(B)$ unless you can justify that they are independent.
answered Dec 1 at 5:48
Siong Thye Goh
95.8k1462116
95.8k1462116
add a comment |
add a comment |
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I think you haven't understood what a permutation is, and hence you're doing things very incorrectly. Please go and revise this. (Loosely, the set of permutations of a set $S$ is the set of all the different orderings you can write these numbers in. In the question, they give you the set in a uniformly random order - i.e., the numbers $(a_1, dots, a_n)$ are $(1,dots,n)$ all jumbled up. Note that the size of sample space is $n!$, which for $n =3$ is $6$, not $8$. Also, $P(a_i = j) = 1/n$ for any $i,j,n$, & in particular $P(a_n = n) neq 1$.)
– stochasticboy321
Dec 1 at 3:40