Find the curve with the shortest path on a surface(geodesic)












3












$begingroup$


1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data



Let $U$ be a plane given by $frac{x^2}{2}-z=0$



Find the curve with the shortest path on $U$ between the points $A(-1,0,frac{1}{2})$ and $B(1,1,frac{1}{2})$



I have a question regarding the answer we got in class.



2. Relevant equations



Euler-Lagrange
$$I(y)=int L(x,y,y')dx$$ has extremes when $$L_y-frac{d}{dx}L_{y'}=0$$



3. The attempt at a solution



So how what we did in class was.
Let $gamma (x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ then the shortest path is going to be the minimum of the functional
$$I(gamma)=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{dx^2+dy^2+dz^2}=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}dx$$
Now using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the extremes of a functional we get that:
$L_y=0$



$L_{y'}=frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}$



Therefore we are going to have extremes when



$frac{d}{dx}frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=0$ which means that $frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=C$



Now solving this DE we get
$y'=Dsqrt{x^2+1}implies y=frac{D}{2}( (sqrt{x^2 + 1} x + sinh^{-1}(x)) +E$



Which would mean that the shortes path on the curve would be



$gamma(x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ where we could get $E,D$ from the initial conditions $y(-1)=0,y(1)=1$



All seems good. However last week in another class we said the a curve $gamma,text{is a geodesic}iff gamma''|| N$. Where $N$ is the normal of the surface $U$



I decided to check if this holds for the curve we got and got
$N=nabla( frac{x^2}{2}-z)=(x,0,-1)$
$gamma ''(x)=(0, frac{D x}{sqrt{x^2 + 1}}, 1)$



And here we see that $Nnparallel gamma '' $. Can anyone explain me why this is the case? does that mean that the shortest path is not a geodesic?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Dec 28 '18 at 16:39
















3












$begingroup$


1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data



Let $U$ be a plane given by $frac{x^2}{2}-z=0$



Find the curve with the shortest path on $U$ between the points $A(-1,0,frac{1}{2})$ and $B(1,1,frac{1}{2})$



I have a question regarding the answer we got in class.



2. Relevant equations



Euler-Lagrange
$$I(y)=int L(x,y,y')dx$$ has extremes when $$L_y-frac{d}{dx}L_{y'}=0$$



3. The attempt at a solution



So how what we did in class was.
Let $gamma (x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ then the shortest path is going to be the minimum of the functional
$$I(gamma)=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{dx^2+dy^2+dz^2}=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}dx$$
Now using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the extremes of a functional we get that:
$L_y=0$



$L_{y'}=frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}$



Therefore we are going to have extremes when



$frac{d}{dx}frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=0$ which means that $frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=C$



Now solving this DE we get
$y'=Dsqrt{x^2+1}implies y=frac{D}{2}( (sqrt{x^2 + 1} x + sinh^{-1}(x)) +E$



Which would mean that the shortes path on the curve would be



$gamma(x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ where we could get $E,D$ from the initial conditions $y(-1)=0,y(1)=1$



All seems good. However last week in another class we said the a curve $gamma,text{is a geodesic}iff gamma''|| N$. Where $N$ is the normal of the surface $U$



I decided to check if this holds for the curve we got and got
$N=nabla( frac{x^2}{2}-z)=(x,0,-1)$
$gamma ''(x)=(0, frac{D x}{sqrt{x^2 + 1}}, 1)$



And here we see that $Nnparallel gamma '' $. Can anyone explain me why this is the case? does that mean that the shortest path is not a geodesic?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Dec 28 '18 at 16:39














3












3








3


1



$begingroup$


1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data



Let $U$ be a plane given by $frac{x^2}{2}-z=0$



Find the curve with the shortest path on $U$ between the points $A(-1,0,frac{1}{2})$ and $B(1,1,frac{1}{2})$



I have a question regarding the answer we got in class.



2. Relevant equations



Euler-Lagrange
$$I(y)=int L(x,y,y')dx$$ has extremes when $$L_y-frac{d}{dx}L_{y'}=0$$



3. The attempt at a solution



So how what we did in class was.
Let $gamma (x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ then the shortest path is going to be the minimum of the functional
$$I(gamma)=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{dx^2+dy^2+dz^2}=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}dx$$
Now using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the extremes of a functional we get that:
$L_y=0$



$L_{y'}=frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}$



Therefore we are going to have extremes when



$frac{d}{dx}frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=0$ which means that $frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=C$



Now solving this DE we get
$y'=Dsqrt{x^2+1}implies y=frac{D}{2}( (sqrt{x^2 + 1} x + sinh^{-1}(x)) +E$



Which would mean that the shortes path on the curve would be



$gamma(x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ where we could get $E,D$ from the initial conditions $y(-1)=0,y(1)=1$



All seems good. However last week in another class we said the a curve $gamma,text{is a geodesic}iff gamma''|| N$. Where $N$ is the normal of the surface $U$



I decided to check if this holds for the curve we got and got
$N=nabla( frac{x^2}{2}-z)=(x,0,-1)$
$gamma ''(x)=(0, frac{D x}{sqrt{x^2 + 1}}, 1)$



And here we see that $Nnparallel gamma '' $. Can anyone explain me why this is the case? does that mean that the shortest path is not a geodesic?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




1. The problem statement, all variables and given/known data



Let $U$ be a plane given by $frac{x^2}{2}-z=0$



Find the curve with the shortest path on $U$ between the points $A(-1,0,frac{1}{2})$ and $B(1,1,frac{1}{2})$



I have a question regarding the answer we got in class.



2. Relevant equations



Euler-Lagrange
$$I(y)=int L(x,y,y')dx$$ has extremes when $$L_y-frac{d}{dx}L_{y'}=0$$



3. The attempt at a solution



So how what we did in class was.
Let $gamma (x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ then the shortest path is going to be the minimum of the functional
$$I(gamma)=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{dx^2+dy^2+dz^2}=displaystyleint_{-1}^{1}sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}dx$$
Now using the Euler-Lagrange equation for the extremes of a functional we get that:
$L_y=0$



$L_{y'}=frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}$



Therefore we are going to have extremes when



$frac{d}{dx}frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=0$ which means that $frac{y'}{sqrt{1+(y')^2+x^2}}=C$



Now solving this DE we get
$y'=Dsqrt{x^2+1}implies y=frac{D}{2}( (sqrt{x^2 + 1} x + sinh^{-1}(x)) +E$



Which would mean that the shortes path on the curve would be



$gamma(x)=(x,y(x),frac{x^2}{2})$ where we could get $E,D$ from the initial conditions $y(-1)=0,y(1)=1$



All seems good. However last week in another class we said the a curve $gamma,text{is a geodesic}iff gamma''|| N$. Where $N$ is the normal of the surface $U$



I decided to check if this holds for the curve we got and got
$N=nabla( frac{x^2}{2}-z)=(x,0,-1)$
$gamma ''(x)=(0, frac{D x}{sqrt{x^2 + 1}}, 1)$



And here we see that $Nnparallel gamma '' $. Can anyone explain me why this is the case? does that mean that the shortest path is not a geodesic?







geodesic euler-lagrange-equation






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




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edited Dec 28 '18 at 15:08









Andrei

12.3k21128




12.3k21128










asked Dec 28 '18 at 14:54









westlifewestlife

888




888












  • $begingroup$
    What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Dec 28 '18 at 16:39


















  • $begingroup$
    What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
    $endgroup$
    – Oscar Lanzi
    Dec 28 '18 at 16:39
















$begingroup$
What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
$endgroup$
– Oscar Lanzi
Dec 28 '18 at 16:39




$begingroup$
What is $gamma$ differentiated with? You have the differentiation variable as a coordinate, I would intuitively suppose it's arc length, and when there is more than one derivative they could be different.
$endgroup$
– Oscar Lanzi
Dec 28 '18 at 16:39










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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1












$begingroup$

A minimizing curve is geodesic only up to reparameterization.



Assume that exists a reparameterization $phi$ such that $delta = gamma circ phi$ is a geodesic.



We have
$$dotdelta(t)= dotgamma(phi(t))dotphi(t) = left(1, Dsqrt{phi(t)^2+1}, phi(t)right)dotphi(t)$$



In particular, a geodesic $delta$ has to be of unit speed so $$1 = |dotdelta|^2 = (D^2+1)(phi^2+1)dotphi^2 implies dotphi = frac{1}{sqrt{(D^2+1)(phi^2+1)}} implies phi(t) = frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t)$$



Then $$dotdelta(t) = left(frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1} sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}},frac{D}{sqrt{D^2+1}},frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{left(D^2+1right) sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}}right)$$



and



$$ddotdelta(t) = left(-frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{(D^2+1)^{3/2}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}},0,frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}}right)$$



Evidently $ddotdelta parallel Ncirc delta$ since $N(delta(t)) = (phi(t),0,-1) = left(frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t),0,-1right)$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    It depends on how one parametrize the line. A curve $gamma(t)$ is geodesic if $gamma''(t)=0$ or $gamma''$ is parallel to the normal. So a line $gamma(x)=ax+b$ is geodesic. However, you can parametrize the same line as $gamma=atan alpha+b$, with $alpha in(-pi/2,pi/2)$. Then $$gamma''(u)=frac{2asin alpha}{cos^3alpha}$$
    This expression is zero only when $alpha=0$. In principle is possible to parametrize every curve such that it's geodesic. Not sure how easy it is for this particular case.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













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      2 Answers
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      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






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      active

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      1












      $begingroup$

      A minimizing curve is geodesic only up to reparameterization.



      Assume that exists a reparameterization $phi$ such that $delta = gamma circ phi$ is a geodesic.



      We have
      $$dotdelta(t)= dotgamma(phi(t))dotphi(t) = left(1, Dsqrt{phi(t)^2+1}, phi(t)right)dotphi(t)$$



      In particular, a geodesic $delta$ has to be of unit speed so $$1 = |dotdelta|^2 = (D^2+1)(phi^2+1)dotphi^2 implies dotphi = frac{1}{sqrt{(D^2+1)(phi^2+1)}} implies phi(t) = frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t)$$



      Then $$dotdelta(t) = left(frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1} sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}},frac{D}{sqrt{D^2+1}},frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{left(D^2+1right) sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}}right)$$



      and



      $$ddotdelta(t) = left(-frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{(D^2+1)^{3/2}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}},0,frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}}right)$$



      Evidently $ddotdelta parallel Ncirc delta$ since $N(delta(t)) = (phi(t),0,-1) = left(frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t),0,-1right)$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$


















        1












        $begingroup$

        A minimizing curve is geodesic only up to reparameterization.



        Assume that exists a reparameterization $phi$ such that $delta = gamma circ phi$ is a geodesic.



        We have
        $$dotdelta(t)= dotgamma(phi(t))dotphi(t) = left(1, Dsqrt{phi(t)^2+1}, phi(t)right)dotphi(t)$$



        In particular, a geodesic $delta$ has to be of unit speed so $$1 = |dotdelta|^2 = (D^2+1)(phi^2+1)dotphi^2 implies dotphi = frac{1}{sqrt{(D^2+1)(phi^2+1)}} implies phi(t) = frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t)$$



        Then $$dotdelta(t) = left(frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1} sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}},frac{D}{sqrt{D^2+1}},frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{left(D^2+1right) sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}}right)$$



        and



        $$ddotdelta(t) = left(-frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{(D^2+1)^{3/2}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}},0,frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}}right)$$



        Evidently $ddotdelta parallel Ncirc delta$ since $N(delta(t)) = (phi(t),0,-1) = left(frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t),0,-1right)$.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$
















          1












          1








          1





          $begingroup$

          A minimizing curve is geodesic only up to reparameterization.



          Assume that exists a reparameterization $phi$ such that $delta = gamma circ phi$ is a geodesic.



          We have
          $$dotdelta(t)= dotgamma(phi(t))dotphi(t) = left(1, Dsqrt{phi(t)^2+1}, phi(t)right)dotphi(t)$$



          In particular, a geodesic $delta$ has to be of unit speed so $$1 = |dotdelta|^2 = (D^2+1)(phi^2+1)dotphi^2 implies dotphi = frac{1}{sqrt{(D^2+1)(phi^2+1)}} implies phi(t) = frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t)$$



          Then $$dotdelta(t) = left(frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1} sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}},frac{D}{sqrt{D^2+1}},frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{left(D^2+1right) sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}}right)$$



          and



          $$ddotdelta(t) = left(-frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{(D^2+1)^{3/2}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}},0,frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}}right)$$



          Evidently $ddotdelta parallel Ncirc delta$ since $N(delta(t)) = (phi(t),0,-1) = left(frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t),0,-1right)$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          A minimizing curve is geodesic only up to reparameterization.



          Assume that exists a reparameterization $phi$ such that $delta = gamma circ phi$ is a geodesic.



          We have
          $$dotdelta(t)= dotgamma(phi(t))dotphi(t) = left(1, Dsqrt{phi(t)^2+1}, phi(t)right)dotphi(t)$$



          In particular, a geodesic $delta$ has to be of unit speed so $$1 = |dotdelta|^2 = (D^2+1)(phi^2+1)dotphi^2 implies dotphi = frac{1}{sqrt{(D^2+1)(phi^2+1)}} implies phi(t) = frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t)$$



          Then $$dotdelta(t) = left(frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1} sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}},frac{D}{sqrt{D^2+1}},frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{left(D^2+1right) sqrt{frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1}}right)$$



          and



          $$ddotdelta(t) = left(-frac{operatorname{Arsinh}(t)}{(D^2+1)^{3/2}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}},0,frac{1}{sqrt{D^2+1}sqrt{t^2+1} left(frac{operatorname{Arsinh}^2(t)}{D^2+1}+1right)^{3/2}}right)$$



          Evidently $ddotdelta parallel Ncirc delta$ since $N(delta(t)) = (phi(t),0,-1) = left(frac1{sqrt{D^2+1}} operatorname{Arsinh}(t),0,-1right)$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 28 '18 at 16:10









          mechanodroidmechanodroid

          27.8k62447




          27.8k62447























              0












              $begingroup$

              It depends on how one parametrize the line. A curve $gamma(t)$ is geodesic if $gamma''(t)=0$ or $gamma''$ is parallel to the normal. So a line $gamma(x)=ax+b$ is geodesic. However, you can parametrize the same line as $gamma=atan alpha+b$, with $alpha in(-pi/2,pi/2)$. Then $$gamma''(u)=frac{2asin alpha}{cos^3alpha}$$
              This expression is zero only when $alpha=0$. In principle is possible to parametrize every curve such that it's geodesic. Not sure how easy it is for this particular case.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                0












                $begingroup$

                It depends on how one parametrize the line. A curve $gamma(t)$ is geodesic if $gamma''(t)=0$ or $gamma''$ is parallel to the normal. So a line $gamma(x)=ax+b$ is geodesic. However, you can parametrize the same line as $gamma=atan alpha+b$, with $alpha in(-pi/2,pi/2)$. Then $$gamma''(u)=frac{2asin alpha}{cos^3alpha}$$
                This expression is zero only when $alpha=0$. In principle is possible to parametrize every curve such that it's geodesic. Not sure how easy it is for this particular case.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  0












                  0








                  0





                  $begingroup$

                  It depends on how one parametrize the line. A curve $gamma(t)$ is geodesic if $gamma''(t)=0$ or $gamma''$ is parallel to the normal. So a line $gamma(x)=ax+b$ is geodesic. However, you can parametrize the same line as $gamma=atan alpha+b$, with $alpha in(-pi/2,pi/2)$. Then $$gamma''(u)=frac{2asin alpha}{cos^3alpha}$$
                  This expression is zero only when $alpha=0$. In principle is possible to parametrize every curve such that it's geodesic. Not sure how easy it is for this particular case.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  It depends on how one parametrize the line. A curve $gamma(t)$ is geodesic if $gamma''(t)=0$ or $gamma''$ is parallel to the normal. So a line $gamma(x)=ax+b$ is geodesic. However, you can parametrize the same line as $gamma=atan alpha+b$, with $alpha in(-pi/2,pi/2)$. Then $$gamma''(u)=frac{2asin alpha}{cos^3alpha}$$
                  This expression is zero only when $alpha=0$. In principle is possible to parametrize every curve such that it's geodesic. Not sure how easy it is for this particular case.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 28 '18 at 15:39

























                  answered Dec 28 '18 at 15:33









                  AndreiAndrei

                  12.3k21128




                  12.3k21128






























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