A ring without the Invariant Basis Number property
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I was reviewing my homework and it seems I overlooked something crucial while proving some ring has no Invariant Basis Number property. This is exercise VI.1.12 in Aluffi's Algebra: Chapter 0
The setup: $V$ is a $k$-vector space and let $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V)$.
- Prove that $mathrm{End}_{k}(Voplus V) cong R^4$ as an $R$-module
- Prove that $R$ doesn't satisfy the IBN property if $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$.
For the first, I used to the fact that $V oplus V$ is both the product and coproduct (in $k$-Vect) of $V$ with itself to get the isomorphism. What I just realized is I only showed that the two are isomorphic as groups not $R$-modules. So what would be the $R$-module structure on $mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$?
For the second, I used the fact that $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$ implies $V cong V oplus V$ which in turn implies $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V) cong mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$. Again, I just realized that I only showed the latter two are isomorphic as groups.
It may be obvious (and maybe why my professor let it pass?) but I can't come up with a good $R$-module structure that makes the two group isomorphisms $R$-linear.
Edit:
Explicitly, these are the isomorphisms I'm dealing with. Let $pi_j, i_j$ be the natural projection/inclusion maps of the $j$-th factor resp. and $psi: k^{oplus mathbb N} oplus k^{oplus mathbb N} to k^{oplus mathbb N}$ the isomorphism given by $psi(e_i, 0)=e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i)=e_{2i}$.
Then the first isomorphism $mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)to R^4$ is given by $varphi mapsto (pi_1varphi i_1,pi_2varphi i_1,pi_1varphi i_2,pi_2varphi i_2)$
The second isomorphism $R to mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$ is given by $alpha mapsto psi^{-1} alpha psi$
The composition doesn't seem to be $R$-linear if I use the obvious $R$-module structure on $R$ and $R^4$.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra modules
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was reviewing my homework and it seems I overlooked something crucial while proving some ring has no Invariant Basis Number property. This is exercise VI.1.12 in Aluffi's Algebra: Chapter 0
The setup: $V$ is a $k$-vector space and let $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V)$.
- Prove that $mathrm{End}_{k}(Voplus V) cong R^4$ as an $R$-module
- Prove that $R$ doesn't satisfy the IBN property if $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$.
For the first, I used to the fact that $V oplus V$ is both the product and coproduct (in $k$-Vect) of $V$ with itself to get the isomorphism. What I just realized is I only showed that the two are isomorphic as groups not $R$-modules. So what would be the $R$-module structure on $mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$?
For the second, I used the fact that $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$ implies $V cong V oplus V$ which in turn implies $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V) cong mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$. Again, I just realized that I only showed the latter two are isomorphic as groups.
It may be obvious (and maybe why my professor let it pass?) but I can't come up with a good $R$-module structure that makes the two group isomorphisms $R$-linear.
Edit:
Explicitly, these are the isomorphisms I'm dealing with. Let $pi_j, i_j$ be the natural projection/inclusion maps of the $j$-th factor resp. and $psi: k^{oplus mathbb N} oplus k^{oplus mathbb N} to k^{oplus mathbb N}$ the isomorphism given by $psi(e_i, 0)=e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i)=e_{2i}$.
Then the first isomorphism $mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)to R^4$ is given by $varphi mapsto (pi_1varphi i_1,pi_2varphi i_1,pi_1varphi i_2,pi_2varphi i_2)$
The second isomorphism $R to mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$ is given by $alpha mapsto psi^{-1} alpha psi$
The composition doesn't seem to be $R$-linear if I use the obvious $R$-module structure on $R$ and $R^4$.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra modules
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I was reviewing my homework and it seems I overlooked something crucial while proving some ring has no Invariant Basis Number property. This is exercise VI.1.12 in Aluffi's Algebra: Chapter 0
The setup: $V$ is a $k$-vector space and let $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V)$.
- Prove that $mathrm{End}_{k}(Voplus V) cong R^4$ as an $R$-module
- Prove that $R$ doesn't satisfy the IBN property if $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$.
For the first, I used to the fact that $V oplus V$ is both the product and coproduct (in $k$-Vect) of $V$ with itself to get the isomorphism. What I just realized is I only showed that the two are isomorphic as groups not $R$-modules. So what would be the $R$-module structure on $mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$?
For the second, I used the fact that $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$ implies $V cong V oplus V$ which in turn implies $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V) cong mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$. Again, I just realized that I only showed the latter two are isomorphic as groups.
It may be obvious (and maybe why my professor let it pass?) but I can't come up with a good $R$-module structure that makes the two group isomorphisms $R$-linear.
Edit:
Explicitly, these are the isomorphisms I'm dealing with. Let $pi_j, i_j$ be the natural projection/inclusion maps of the $j$-th factor resp. and $psi: k^{oplus mathbb N} oplus k^{oplus mathbb N} to k^{oplus mathbb N}$ the isomorphism given by $psi(e_i, 0)=e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i)=e_{2i}$.
Then the first isomorphism $mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)to R^4$ is given by $varphi mapsto (pi_1varphi i_1,pi_2varphi i_1,pi_1varphi i_2,pi_2varphi i_2)$
The second isomorphism $R to mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$ is given by $alpha mapsto psi^{-1} alpha psi$
The composition doesn't seem to be $R$-linear if I use the obvious $R$-module structure on $R$ and $R^4$.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra modules
$endgroup$
I was reviewing my homework and it seems I overlooked something crucial while proving some ring has no Invariant Basis Number property. This is exercise VI.1.12 in Aluffi's Algebra: Chapter 0
The setup: $V$ is a $k$-vector space and let $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V)$.
- Prove that $mathrm{End}_{k}(Voplus V) cong R^4$ as an $R$-module
- Prove that $R$ doesn't satisfy the IBN property if $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$.
For the first, I used to the fact that $V oplus V$ is both the product and coproduct (in $k$-Vect) of $V$ with itself to get the isomorphism. What I just realized is I only showed that the two are isomorphic as groups not $R$-modules. So what would be the $R$-module structure on $mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$?
For the second, I used the fact that $V = k^{oplus mathbb N}$ implies $V cong V oplus V$ which in turn implies $R = mathrm{End}_{k}(V) cong mathrm{End}_{k}(V oplus V)$. Again, I just realized that I only showed the latter two are isomorphic as groups.
It may be obvious (and maybe why my professor let it pass?) but I can't come up with a good $R$-module structure that makes the two group isomorphisms $R$-linear.
Edit:
Explicitly, these are the isomorphisms I'm dealing with. Let $pi_j, i_j$ be the natural projection/inclusion maps of the $j$-th factor resp. and $psi: k^{oplus mathbb N} oplus k^{oplus mathbb N} to k^{oplus mathbb N}$ the isomorphism given by $psi(e_i, 0)=e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i)=e_{2i}$.
Then the first isomorphism $mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)to R^4$ is given by $varphi mapsto (pi_1varphi i_1,pi_2varphi i_1,pi_1varphi i_2,pi_2varphi i_2)$
The second isomorphism $R to mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$ is given by $alpha mapsto psi^{-1} alpha psi$
The composition doesn't seem to be $R$-linear if I use the obvious $R$-module structure on $R$ and $R^4$.
linear-algebra abstract-algebra modules
linear-algebra abstract-algebra modules
edited Jan 9 '16 at 10:23
user26857
39.4k124183
39.4k124183
asked May 3 '15 at 21:21
genepeergenepeer
943619
943619
$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26
$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
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oldest
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I know how to prove that $R$ does not satisfy IBN (still thinking about the first question). Take a basis ${e_imid iinmathbb{N}}$ for $V$ as a $k$-vector space. Define $f_1,f_2in R$ by $f_1(e_i)=e_{2i-1}$ and $f_2(e_i)=e_{2i}$. Then ${f_1,f_2}$ generates $R$ as a right $R$-module, and this set is $R$-linearly independent. So $R^{2}$ and $R$ are isomorphic as $R$-modules, because ${1}$ is also a basis for $R$ as $R$-module.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The way the question is posed, it seems implied that we can use the first part to prove the second. But that is impossible as far I can tell: the induced composition $R cong R^4$ is not $R$-linear.
However, the first isomorphism can be made $R$-linear by using the following structure:
$alpha in R, varphi in mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V) $ then $$ alpha cdot varphi = (alpha oplus alpha) circ varphi $$
This structure appears to be lost through any isomorphism $R cong mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
I know how to prove that $R$ does not satisfy IBN (still thinking about the first question). Take a basis ${e_imid iinmathbb{N}}$ for $V$ as a $k$-vector space. Define $f_1,f_2in R$ by $f_1(e_i)=e_{2i-1}$ and $f_2(e_i)=e_{2i}$. Then ${f_1,f_2}$ generates $R$ as a right $R$-module, and this set is $R$-linearly independent. So $R^{2}$ and $R$ are isomorphic as $R$-modules, because ${1}$ is also a basis for $R$ as $R$-module.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I know how to prove that $R$ does not satisfy IBN (still thinking about the first question). Take a basis ${e_imid iinmathbb{N}}$ for $V$ as a $k$-vector space. Define $f_1,f_2in R$ by $f_1(e_i)=e_{2i-1}$ and $f_2(e_i)=e_{2i}$. Then ${f_1,f_2}$ generates $R$ as a right $R$-module, and this set is $R$-linearly independent. So $R^{2}$ and $R$ are isomorphic as $R$-modules, because ${1}$ is also a basis for $R$ as $R$-module.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I know how to prove that $R$ does not satisfy IBN (still thinking about the first question). Take a basis ${e_imid iinmathbb{N}}$ for $V$ as a $k$-vector space. Define $f_1,f_2in R$ by $f_1(e_i)=e_{2i-1}$ and $f_2(e_i)=e_{2i}$. Then ${f_1,f_2}$ generates $R$ as a right $R$-module, and this set is $R$-linearly independent. So $R^{2}$ and $R$ are isomorphic as $R$-modules, because ${1}$ is also a basis for $R$ as $R$-module.
$endgroup$
I know how to prove that $R$ does not satisfy IBN (still thinking about the first question). Take a basis ${e_imid iinmathbb{N}}$ for $V$ as a $k$-vector space. Define $f_1,f_2in R$ by $f_1(e_i)=e_{2i-1}$ and $f_2(e_i)=e_{2i}$. Then ${f_1,f_2}$ generates $R$ as a right $R$-module, and this set is $R$-linearly independent. So $R^{2}$ and $R$ are isomorphic as $R$-modules, because ${1}$ is also a basis for $R$ as $R$-module.
edited Jan 9 '16 at 10:24
user26857
39.4k124183
39.4k124183
answered May 3 '15 at 21:42
StudzinskiStudzinski
9741618
9741618
$begingroup$
I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
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– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
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Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
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– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
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Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
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– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
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I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
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– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
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I'll let it stay. I'm a bit confused by why the set is linearly independent. Let $alpha_1, alpha_2, f_1, f_2 , z in R$ where $z$ is the zero function. You're saying $$alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha_2 circ f_2 = z$$ implies $alpha_1 = alpha_2 = z$? I'm assuming multiplication in $R$ is composition and addition point-wise.
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– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:00
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yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
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– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
yes, that is right. Do you want me to complete the proof?
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 3 '15 at 22:08
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Wait. What if $alpha_1(e_1) = e_1$ and vanishes on other bases, and $alpha_2(e_2) = -e_1$ and vanishes on other bases. Then $$(alpha_1 circ f_1 + alpha circ f_2 )(r_1, r_2, ldots) = alpha_1(r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) + alpha_2(0, r_1, 0, r_2, 0, ldots) = (r_1, 0, 0, ldots) + (-r_1, 0, 0, ldots) = (0, 0 , 0 ldots)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:40
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
$begingroup$
Aren't $f_1, f_2$ zero-divisors?
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 22:47
1
1
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
$begingroup$
Sorry, you are correct. But if you consider the right $R$-module structure then ${f_1,f_2}$ will be $R$ linearly independent.
$endgroup$
– Studzinski
May 4 '15 at 0:36
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
The way the question is posed, it seems implied that we can use the first part to prove the second. But that is impossible as far I can tell: the induced composition $R cong R^4$ is not $R$-linear.
However, the first isomorphism can be made $R$-linear by using the following structure:
$alpha in R, varphi in mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V) $ then $$ alpha cdot varphi = (alpha oplus alpha) circ varphi $$
This structure appears to be lost through any isomorphism $R cong mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The way the question is posed, it seems implied that we can use the first part to prove the second. But that is impossible as far I can tell: the induced composition $R cong R^4$ is not $R$-linear.
However, the first isomorphism can be made $R$-linear by using the following structure:
$alpha in R, varphi in mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V) $ then $$ alpha cdot varphi = (alpha oplus alpha) circ varphi $$
This structure appears to be lost through any isomorphism $R cong mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The way the question is posed, it seems implied that we can use the first part to prove the second. But that is impossible as far I can tell: the induced composition $R cong R^4$ is not $R$-linear.
However, the first isomorphism can be made $R$-linear by using the following structure:
$alpha in R, varphi in mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V) $ then $$ alpha cdot varphi = (alpha oplus alpha) circ varphi $$
This structure appears to be lost through any isomorphism $R cong mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$.
$endgroup$
The way the question is posed, it seems implied that we can use the first part to prove the second. But that is impossible as far I can tell: the induced composition $R cong R^4$ is not $R$-linear.
However, the first isomorphism can be made $R$-linear by using the following structure:
$alpha in R, varphi in mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V) $ then $$ alpha cdot varphi = (alpha oplus alpha) circ varphi $$
This structure appears to be lost through any isomorphism $R cong mathrm{End}_k(V oplus V)$.
edited Jan 9 '16 at 10:26
user26857
39.4k124183
39.4k124183
answered May 4 '15 at 20:53
genepeergenepeer
943619
943619
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
For the conclusion I want, i.e., $R$ doesn't have the IBN property since $R cong R^4$, I need isomorphic as $R$-modules.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:38
$begingroup$
Now that I think some more, it could be that the two isomorphism are just group isomorphisms but the composition $R cong R^4$ becomes $R$-linear trivially.
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 21:47
$begingroup$
The composition doesn't seem to be R-linear: Let $psi:V oplus V to V$ be the isomorphism $psi(e_i, 0) = e_{2i-1}$ and $psi(0, e_i) = e_{2i}$. Then the composition $R cong R^4$ is given by $$alpha mapsto (pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_1, pi_1 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2, pi_2 (psi^{-1} alpha psi) i_2)$$
$endgroup$
– genepeer
May 3 '15 at 23:26