Very Hard Question
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I've seen this question answered before on this website, but I did not understand how they did it. So essentially, the question is as follows:
Given $n$ lines in the plane such that $m$ are parallel and no three lines intersect at a single point. These $n$ lines with $m$ parallel lines form $binom{n-m}{3} + binom{n-m}{2}cdot m$ triangles.
How would you prove this using simple induction. Please show steps as well so I can better understand it.
calculus
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show 2 more comments
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down vote
favorite
I've seen this question answered before on this website, but I did not understand how they did it. So essentially, the question is as follows:
Given $n$ lines in the plane such that $m$ are parallel and no three lines intersect at a single point. These $n$ lines with $m$ parallel lines form $binom{n-m}{3} + binom{n-m}{2}cdot m$ triangles.
How would you prove this using simple induction. Please show steps as well so I can better understand it.
calculus
New contributor
2
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07
|
show 2 more comments
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
I've seen this question answered before on this website, but I did not understand how they did it. So essentially, the question is as follows:
Given $n$ lines in the plane such that $m$ are parallel and no three lines intersect at a single point. These $n$ lines with $m$ parallel lines form $binom{n-m}{3} + binom{n-m}{2}cdot m$ triangles.
How would you prove this using simple induction. Please show steps as well so I can better understand it.
calculus
New contributor
I've seen this question answered before on this website, but I did not understand how they did it. So essentially, the question is as follows:
Given $n$ lines in the plane such that $m$ are parallel and no three lines intersect at a single point. These $n$ lines with $m$ parallel lines form $binom{n-m}{3} + binom{n-m}{2}cdot m$ triangles.
How would you prove this using simple induction. Please show steps as well so I can better understand it.
calculus
calculus
New contributor
New contributor
edited Dec 3 at 1:18
New contributor
asked Dec 1 at 20:30
Noobcoder
274
274
New contributor
New contributor
2
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07
|
show 2 more comments
2
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07
2
2
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07
|
show 2 more comments
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can easily check that the formula is valid for some simple starting configuration (for example, for $n=3$, I leave it up to you).
Here is the induciton step:
Suppose that the formula is correct for some number of lines $n$ with $m$ of them being parallel:
$$f(n,m)={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m$$
We have to prove that the formula is still correct if we add:
- one more line that is parallel with existing $m$ lines
- one more line that is not parallel with existing $m$ lines
Note that whenever you add a new (black) line you are adding one new (brown) triangle whenever a new line intersect a pair of non-parallel (red) lines, but not in the case when the new line intersects a pair of parallel (blue) lines:
Case 1: Adding one more line that is parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m+1$ lines being parallel.
In this case the new line will add a new triangle whenever a new line interesects a pair of non-parallel lines. There are ${n-m choose 2}$ such pairs so the total number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+{n-m choose 2}={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+{n-m choose 2}=$$
$${n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}(m+1)=$$
$${(n+1) - (m+1) choose 3}+{(n + 1) - (m+1) choose 2}(m+1)=f(n+1,m+1)$$
So the formula is correct in this case too.
Case 2: Adding one more line that is not parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m$ lines being parallel.
How many triangles are we adding by adding one non-parallel line? In total, the new line will intersect ${n choose 2}$ pairs of lines. Intersection with each pair of lines will add a new triangle except when the line intersect a pair of parallel lines. And there are ${m choose 2}$ such pairs.
So the increment in nummber of triangles is:
$$Delta={n choose 2}-{m choose 2}=frac{n(n-1)}{2}-frac{m(m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{n^2-m^2-n+m}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m)-(n-m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1+2m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1)}{2}+(n-m)m$$
$$Delta=binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m$$
New number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+Delta={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m=$$
$$left[{n - m choose 3}+binom{n-m}{2}right] + left[{n - m choose 2}+binom{n-m}{1}right]m=$$
$${n+1 - m choose 3}+{n+1 - m choose 2}m=f(n+1,m)$$
In the last step we have used a known identity:
$$binom{p}{q}+binom{p}{q-1}=binom{p+1}{q}$$
Conclusion: You can construct all possible configurations either by adding parallel or non-parallel line, one by one, and in both cases we have proved the the $f(n,m)$ formula is correct. So the formula is valid for any given $n,m$.
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
add a comment |
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can easily check that the formula is valid for some simple starting configuration (for example, for $n=3$, I leave it up to you).
Here is the induciton step:
Suppose that the formula is correct for some number of lines $n$ with $m$ of them being parallel:
$$f(n,m)={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m$$
We have to prove that the formula is still correct if we add:
- one more line that is parallel with existing $m$ lines
- one more line that is not parallel with existing $m$ lines
Note that whenever you add a new (black) line you are adding one new (brown) triangle whenever a new line intersect a pair of non-parallel (red) lines, but not in the case when the new line intersects a pair of parallel (blue) lines:
Case 1: Adding one more line that is parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m+1$ lines being parallel.
In this case the new line will add a new triangle whenever a new line interesects a pair of non-parallel lines. There are ${n-m choose 2}$ such pairs so the total number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+{n-m choose 2}={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+{n-m choose 2}=$$
$${n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}(m+1)=$$
$${(n+1) - (m+1) choose 3}+{(n + 1) - (m+1) choose 2}(m+1)=f(n+1,m+1)$$
So the formula is correct in this case too.
Case 2: Adding one more line that is not parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m$ lines being parallel.
How many triangles are we adding by adding one non-parallel line? In total, the new line will intersect ${n choose 2}$ pairs of lines. Intersection with each pair of lines will add a new triangle except when the line intersect a pair of parallel lines. And there are ${m choose 2}$ such pairs.
So the increment in nummber of triangles is:
$$Delta={n choose 2}-{m choose 2}=frac{n(n-1)}{2}-frac{m(m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{n^2-m^2-n+m}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m)-(n-m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1+2m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1)}{2}+(n-m)m$$
$$Delta=binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m$$
New number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+Delta={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m=$$
$$left[{n - m choose 3}+binom{n-m}{2}right] + left[{n - m choose 2}+binom{n-m}{1}right]m=$$
$${n+1 - m choose 3}+{n+1 - m choose 2}m=f(n+1,m)$$
In the last step we have used a known identity:
$$binom{p}{q}+binom{p}{q-1}=binom{p+1}{q}$$
Conclusion: You can construct all possible configurations either by adding parallel or non-parallel line, one by one, and in both cases we have proved the the $f(n,m)$ formula is correct. So the formula is valid for any given $n,m$.
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can easily check that the formula is valid for some simple starting configuration (for example, for $n=3$, I leave it up to you).
Here is the induciton step:
Suppose that the formula is correct for some number of lines $n$ with $m$ of them being parallel:
$$f(n,m)={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m$$
We have to prove that the formula is still correct if we add:
- one more line that is parallel with existing $m$ lines
- one more line that is not parallel with existing $m$ lines
Note that whenever you add a new (black) line you are adding one new (brown) triangle whenever a new line intersect a pair of non-parallel (red) lines, but not in the case when the new line intersects a pair of parallel (blue) lines:
Case 1: Adding one more line that is parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m+1$ lines being parallel.
In this case the new line will add a new triangle whenever a new line interesects a pair of non-parallel lines. There are ${n-m choose 2}$ such pairs so the total number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+{n-m choose 2}={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+{n-m choose 2}=$$
$${n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}(m+1)=$$
$${(n+1) - (m+1) choose 3}+{(n + 1) - (m+1) choose 2}(m+1)=f(n+1,m+1)$$
So the formula is correct in this case too.
Case 2: Adding one more line that is not parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m$ lines being parallel.
How many triangles are we adding by adding one non-parallel line? In total, the new line will intersect ${n choose 2}$ pairs of lines. Intersection with each pair of lines will add a new triangle except when the line intersect a pair of parallel lines. And there are ${m choose 2}$ such pairs.
So the increment in nummber of triangles is:
$$Delta={n choose 2}-{m choose 2}=frac{n(n-1)}{2}-frac{m(m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{n^2-m^2-n+m}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m)-(n-m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1+2m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1)}{2}+(n-m)m$$
$$Delta=binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m$$
New number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+Delta={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m=$$
$$left[{n - m choose 3}+binom{n-m}{2}right] + left[{n - m choose 2}+binom{n-m}{1}right]m=$$
$${n+1 - m choose 3}+{n+1 - m choose 2}m=f(n+1,m)$$
In the last step we have used a known identity:
$$binom{p}{q}+binom{p}{q-1}=binom{p+1}{q}$$
Conclusion: You can construct all possible configurations either by adding parallel or non-parallel line, one by one, and in both cases we have proved the the $f(n,m)$ formula is correct. So the formula is valid for any given $n,m$.
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
You can easily check that the formula is valid for some simple starting configuration (for example, for $n=3$, I leave it up to you).
Here is the induciton step:
Suppose that the formula is correct for some number of lines $n$ with $m$ of them being parallel:
$$f(n,m)={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m$$
We have to prove that the formula is still correct if we add:
- one more line that is parallel with existing $m$ lines
- one more line that is not parallel with existing $m$ lines
Note that whenever you add a new (black) line you are adding one new (brown) triangle whenever a new line intersect a pair of non-parallel (red) lines, but not in the case when the new line intersects a pair of parallel (blue) lines:
Case 1: Adding one more line that is parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m+1$ lines being parallel.
In this case the new line will add a new triangle whenever a new line interesects a pair of non-parallel lines. There are ${n-m choose 2}$ such pairs so the total number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+{n-m choose 2}={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+{n-m choose 2}=$$
$${n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}(m+1)=$$
$${(n+1) - (m+1) choose 3}+{(n + 1) - (m+1) choose 2}(m+1)=f(n+1,m+1)$$
So the formula is correct in this case too.
Case 2: Adding one more line that is not parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m$ lines being parallel.
How many triangles are we adding by adding one non-parallel line? In total, the new line will intersect ${n choose 2}$ pairs of lines. Intersection with each pair of lines will add a new triangle except when the line intersect a pair of parallel lines. And there are ${m choose 2}$ such pairs.
So the increment in nummber of triangles is:
$$Delta={n choose 2}-{m choose 2}=frac{n(n-1)}{2}-frac{m(m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{n^2-m^2-n+m}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m)-(n-m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1+2m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1)}{2}+(n-m)m$$
$$Delta=binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m$$
New number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+Delta={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m=$$
$$left[{n - m choose 3}+binom{n-m}{2}right] + left[{n - m choose 2}+binom{n-m}{1}right]m=$$
$${n+1 - m choose 3}+{n+1 - m choose 2}m=f(n+1,m)$$
In the last step we have used a known identity:
$$binom{p}{q}+binom{p}{q-1}=binom{p+1}{q}$$
Conclusion: You can construct all possible configurations either by adding parallel or non-parallel line, one by one, and in both cases we have proved the the $f(n,m)$ formula is correct. So the formula is valid for any given $n,m$.
You can easily check that the formula is valid for some simple starting configuration (for example, for $n=3$, I leave it up to you).
Here is the induciton step:
Suppose that the formula is correct for some number of lines $n$ with $m$ of them being parallel:
$$f(n,m)={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m$$
We have to prove that the formula is still correct if we add:
- one more line that is parallel with existing $m$ lines
- one more line that is not parallel with existing $m$ lines
Note that whenever you add a new (black) line you are adding one new (brown) triangle whenever a new line intersect a pair of non-parallel (red) lines, but not in the case when the new line intersects a pair of parallel (blue) lines:
Case 1: Adding one more line that is parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m+1$ lines being parallel.
In this case the new line will add a new triangle whenever a new line interesects a pair of non-parallel lines. There are ${n-m choose 2}$ such pairs so the total number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+{n-m choose 2}={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+{n-m choose 2}=$$
$${n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}(m+1)=$$
$${(n+1) - (m+1) choose 3}+{(n + 1) - (m+1) choose 2}(m+1)=f(n+1,m+1)$$
So the formula is correct in this case too.
Case 2: Adding one more line that is not parallel with $m$ existing lines. We are going to end up with $n+1$ lines with $m$ lines being parallel.
How many triangles are we adding by adding one non-parallel line? In total, the new line will intersect ${n choose 2}$ pairs of lines. Intersection with each pair of lines will add a new triangle except when the line intersect a pair of parallel lines. And there are ${m choose 2}$ such pairs.
So the increment in nummber of triangles is:
$$Delta={n choose 2}-{m choose 2}=frac{n(n-1)}{2}-frac{m(m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{n^2-m^2-n+m}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m)-(n-m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n+m-1)}{2}$$
$$Delta=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1+2m)}{2}=frac{(n-m)(n-m-1)}{2}+(n-m)m$$
$$Delta=binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m$$
New number of triangles is:
$$f(n,m)+Delta={n - m choose 3}+{n - m choose 2}m+binom{n-m}{2}+binom{n-m}{1}m=$$
$$left[{n - m choose 3}+binom{n-m}{2}right] + left[{n - m choose 2}+binom{n-m}{1}right]m=$$
$${n+1 - m choose 3}+{n+1 - m choose 2}m=f(n+1,m)$$
In the last step we have used a known identity:
$$binom{p}{q}+binom{p}{q-1}=binom{p+1}{q}$$
Conclusion: You can construct all possible configurations either by adding parallel or non-parallel line, one by one, and in both cases we have proved the the $f(n,m)$ formula is correct. So the formula is valid for any given $n,m$.
answered Dec 2 at 12:26
Oldboy
5,9731628
5,9731628
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
add a comment |
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
Thank you so much!
– Noobcoder
Dec 2 at 15:59
add a comment |
Noobcoder is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
Noobcoder is a new contributor. Be nice, and check out our Code of Conduct.
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2
Welcome to MSE! It would be helpful if you could point to the solution you do not understand and which part you did not follow (so that users know what to explain).
– platty
Dec 1 at 20:32
Previously, but with a non-induction proof.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:41
Another.
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:42
Maybe this is the one OP is thinking of?
– MJD
Dec 1 at 20:45
Yes, I did not seem to understand the method that was used in the link associated with 'this is the one OP is thinking of'. I did not seem to understand why they made that other predicate, and how do u prove it using induction, as I cannot seem to work out the algebra.
– Noobcoder
Dec 1 at 21:07