What is the main difference between pointwise and uniform convergence as defined here?
$begingroup$
I have a little confusion here. I have seen the following several times and seem to be a bit confused as to differentiating them.
Let $E$ be a non-empty subset of $Bbb{R}$. A sequence of functions ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges pointwise to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
On the other hand ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
QUESTION:
Why is $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence or I'm I missing something important? Can't we distinguish them?
real-analysis analysis definition uniform-convergence pointwise-convergence
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a little confusion here. I have seen the following several times and seem to be a bit confused as to differentiating them.
Let $E$ be a non-empty subset of $Bbb{R}$. A sequence of functions ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges pointwise to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
On the other hand ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
QUESTION:
Why is $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence or I'm I missing something important? Can't we distinguish them?
real-analysis analysis definition uniform-convergence pointwise-convergence
$endgroup$
7
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I have a little confusion here. I have seen the following several times and seem to be a bit confused as to differentiating them.
Let $E$ be a non-empty subset of $Bbb{R}$. A sequence of functions ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges pointwise to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
On the other hand ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
QUESTION:
Why is $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence or I'm I missing something important? Can't we distinguish them?
real-analysis analysis definition uniform-convergence pointwise-convergence
$endgroup$
I have a little confusion here. I have seen the following several times and seem to be a bit confused as to differentiating them.
Let $E$ be a non-empty subset of $Bbb{R}$. A sequence of functions ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges pointwise to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
On the other hand ${f_n}_{nin Bbb{N}},$ converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if begin{align}f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.end{align}
QUESTION:
Why is $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence or I'm I missing something important? Can't we distinguish them?
real-analysis analysis definition uniform-convergence pointwise-convergence
real-analysis analysis definition uniform-convergence pointwise-convergence
edited Jan 6 at 4:20
Omojola Micheal
asked Jan 6 at 4:11
Omojola MichealOmojola Micheal
1,986324
1,986324
7
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45
add a comment |
7
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45
7
7
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
$f_n$ converges pointwise means for every $c>0$ for every $x$, there exists $N(x)$ such that $n>N(x)$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$
$f_n$ converges uniformly means that for every $c>0$ there exists $N$ such that for every $x$, $n>N$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$.
In the simply convergence, $N(x)$ depends of $x$ but for uniformly convergence one $N$ is chosen for every $x$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Uniform convergence is actually $mathcal L^infty$ convergence, i.e.
$$
f_n rightrightarrows f [x in E]!! iff !! sup_{x in E} vert f_n - fvert(x) to 0[n to infty].
$$
This is strictly stronger than pointwise convergence.
Alternatively, uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, so $f_n to f$ in both cases.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sorry, but yes, you probably are missing something important, because the second statement in your post
On the other hand ${f_n}_{ninmathbb{N}}$, converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if
$$f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.$$
is false. Without seeing your source, it's impossible to say what happened here, where this erroneous statement came from, and what exactly you're missing.
Are you sure the source says if and only if
here? This certainly is NOT the definition of uniform convergence (unlike your first statement, which indeed is a definition of pointwise convergence, unless we want to expand it further in $varepsilon/delta$-language). This could be a theorem that states that uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, which is a true theorem, but ONLY in this direction, so it cannot say if and only if
.
Your best bet is to check the original source to find out what exactly it says there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What you wrote is actually ill-formed, and that is why it is completely wrong. Nowhere did you specify or quantify $n$ in "$f_n(x) → f(x)$, $∀x∈E$". Furthermore, do not ever use symbols like "$∀$" unless you use them properly (quantifiers must always be put in front of the quantified statement).
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff ( $f_n(x)-f(x) → 0$ as $n→∞$ ) for every $x∈E$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $sup_{x∈E} |f_n(x)-f(x)| → 0$ as $n→∞$.
In one case the convergence may proceed differently for different $x∈E$. In the other case the sup norm between $f_n$ and $f$ (over all $x∈E$) must tend to zero, which intuitively means the convergence must proceed uniformly for all $x∈E$.
In no way is it possible to correctly express uniform convergence using the expression you used, so it is most likely that you did not actually copy the definition or notation given to you.
In purely logical form:
$
defnn{mathbb{N}}
defrr{mathbb{R}}
$
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff $∀x∈E ∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ∀x∈E ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
This is an instance of a (restricted) quantifier swap. It is a basic logic fact that one implies the other, easily summarized as "$∃∀ ⇒ ∀∃$", but the reverse implication may not hold.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3063473%2fwhat-is-the-main-difference-between-pointwise-and-uniform-convergence-as-defined%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
$f_n$ converges pointwise means for every $c>0$ for every $x$, there exists $N(x)$ such that $n>N(x)$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$
$f_n$ converges uniformly means that for every $c>0$ there exists $N$ such that for every $x$, $n>N$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$.
In the simply convergence, $N(x)$ depends of $x$ but for uniformly convergence one $N$ is chosen for every $x$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
$f_n$ converges pointwise means for every $c>0$ for every $x$, there exists $N(x)$ such that $n>N(x)$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$
$f_n$ converges uniformly means that for every $c>0$ there exists $N$ such that for every $x$, $n>N$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$.
In the simply convergence, $N(x)$ depends of $x$ but for uniformly convergence one $N$ is chosen for every $x$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
$f_n$ converges pointwise means for every $c>0$ for every $x$, there exists $N(x)$ such that $n>N(x)$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$
$f_n$ converges uniformly means that for every $c>0$ there exists $N$ such that for every $x$, $n>N$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$.
In the simply convergence, $N(x)$ depends of $x$ but for uniformly convergence one $N$ is chosen for every $x$.
$endgroup$
$f_n$ converges pointwise means for every $c>0$ for every $x$, there exists $N(x)$ such that $n>N(x)$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$
$f_n$ converges uniformly means that for every $c>0$ there exists $N$ such that for every $x$, $n>N$ implies that $|f_n(x)-f(x)|<c$.
In the simply convergence, $N(x)$ depends of $x$ but for uniformly convergence one $N$ is chosen for every $x$.
answered Jan 6 at 4:16
Tsemo AristideTsemo Aristide
59.6k11446
59.6k11446
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
(+1) I already know this but want to know why $f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E,$ is used for both uniform and pointwise convergence.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:20
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
If $f_n$ converges uniformly, it convergence pointwise, so we can write $f_n(x)rightarrow f(x)$ for the both case. The difference is that for uniform convergence, if you draw the picture, you will see that the distance between the graph of $f_n$ and $f$ tends to $0$, this is not necessarily true for simply convergence.
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:24
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
That's so true.
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:25
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
Kindly check your post. Do you mean $f_n(n)=0$ or $f_n(x)=0$?
$endgroup$
– Omojola Micheal
Jan 6 at 4:28
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
$begingroup$
$f_n(n)=1, f_n(x)=0$ if $xneq n$
$endgroup$
– Tsemo Aristide
Jan 6 at 4:33
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Uniform convergence is actually $mathcal L^infty$ convergence, i.e.
$$
f_n rightrightarrows f [x in E]!! iff !! sup_{x in E} vert f_n - fvert(x) to 0[n to infty].
$$
This is strictly stronger than pointwise convergence.
Alternatively, uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, so $f_n to f$ in both cases.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Uniform convergence is actually $mathcal L^infty$ convergence, i.e.
$$
f_n rightrightarrows f [x in E]!! iff !! sup_{x in E} vert f_n - fvert(x) to 0[n to infty].
$$
This is strictly stronger than pointwise convergence.
Alternatively, uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, so $f_n to f$ in both cases.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Uniform convergence is actually $mathcal L^infty$ convergence, i.e.
$$
f_n rightrightarrows f [x in E]!! iff !! sup_{x in E} vert f_n - fvert(x) to 0[n to infty].
$$
This is strictly stronger than pointwise convergence.
Alternatively, uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, so $f_n to f$ in both cases.
$endgroup$
Uniform convergence is actually $mathcal L^infty$ convergence, i.e.
$$
f_n rightrightarrows f [x in E]!! iff !! sup_{x in E} vert f_n - fvert(x) to 0[n to infty].
$$
This is strictly stronger than pointwise convergence.
Alternatively, uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, so $f_n to f$ in both cases.
answered Jan 6 at 4:51
xbhxbh
6,3251522
6,3251522
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
1
1
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
$begingroup$
Essential supremum and supremum coincide in the context of continuous functions. Pointwise convergence does imply uniform convergence in some particular context such as that of a sequence of $l$-Lipschitz functions where $l in mathbb R$.
$endgroup$
– Matt A Pelto
Jan 6 at 5:55
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sorry, but yes, you probably are missing something important, because the second statement in your post
On the other hand ${f_n}_{ninmathbb{N}}$, converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if
$$f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.$$
is false. Without seeing your source, it's impossible to say what happened here, where this erroneous statement came from, and what exactly you're missing.
Are you sure the source says if and only if
here? This certainly is NOT the definition of uniform convergence (unlike your first statement, which indeed is a definition of pointwise convergence, unless we want to expand it further in $varepsilon/delta$-language). This could be a theorem that states that uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, which is a true theorem, but ONLY in this direction, so it cannot say if and only if
.
Your best bet is to check the original source to find out what exactly it says there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sorry, but yes, you probably are missing something important, because the second statement in your post
On the other hand ${f_n}_{ninmathbb{N}}$, converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if
$$f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.$$
is false. Without seeing your source, it's impossible to say what happened here, where this erroneous statement came from, and what exactly you're missing.
Are you sure the source says if and only if
here? This certainly is NOT the definition of uniform convergence (unlike your first statement, which indeed is a definition of pointwise convergence, unless we want to expand it further in $varepsilon/delta$-language). This could be a theorem that states that uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, which is a true theorem, but ONLY in this direction, so it cannot say if and only if
.
Your best bet is to check the original source to find out what exactly it says there.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Sorry, but yes, you probably are missing something important, because the second statement in your post
On the other hand ${f_n}_{ninmathbb{N}}$, converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if
$$f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.$$
is false. Without seeing your source, it's impossible to say what happened here, where this erroneous statement came from, and what exactly you're missing.
Are you sure the source says if and only if
here? This certainly is NOT the definition of uniform convergence (unlike your first statement, which indeed is a definition of pointwise convergence, unless we want to expand it further in $varepsilon/delta$-language). This could be a theorem that states that uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, which is a true theorem, but ONLY in this direction, so it cannot say if and only if
.
Your best bet is to check the original source to find out what exactly it says there.
$endgroup$
Sorry, but yes, you probably are missing something important, because the second statement in your post
On the other hand ${f_n}_{ninmathbb{N}}$, converges uniformly to $f$ on $E$ if and only if
$$f_n(x)to f(x),;forall,xin E.$$
is false. Without seeing your source, it's impossible to say what happened here, where this erroneous statement came from, and what exactly you're missing.
Are you sure the source says if and only if
here? This certainly is NOT the definition of uniform convergence (unlike your first statement, which indeed is a definition of pointwise convergence, unless we want to expand it further in $varepsilon/delta$-language). This could be a theorem that states that uniform convergence implies pointwise convergence, which is a true theorem, but ONLY in this direction, so it cannot say if and only if
.
Your best bet is to check the original source to find out what exactly it says there.
answered Jan 6 at 6:09
zipirovichzipirovich
11.3k11731
11.3k11731
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What you wrote is actually ill-formed, and that is why it is completely wrong. Nowhere did you specify or quantify $n$ in "$f_n(x) → f(x)$, $∀x∈E$". Furthermore, do not ever use symbols like "$∀$" unless you use them properly (quantifiers must always be put in front of the quantified statement).
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff ( $f_n(x)-f(x) → 0$ as $n→∞$ ) for every $x∈E$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $sup_{x∈E} |f_n(x)-f(x)| → 0$ as $n→∞$.
In one case the convergence may proceed differently for different $x∈E$. In the other case the sup norm between $f_n$ and $f$ (over all $x∈E$) must tend to zero, which intuitively means the convergence must proceed uniformly for all $x∈E$.
In no way is it possible to correctly express uniform convergence using the expression you used, so it is most likely that you did not actually copy the definition or notation given to you.
In purely logical form:
$
defnn{mathbb{N}}
defrr{mathbb{R}}
$
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff $∀x∈E ∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ∀x∈E ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
This is an instance of a (restricted) quantifier swap. It is a basic logic fact that one implies the other, easily summarized as "$∃∀ ⇒ ∀∃$", but the reverse implication may not hold.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What you wrote is actually ill-formed, and that is why it is completely wrong. Nowhere did you specify or quantify $n$ in "$f_n(x) → f(x)$, $∀x∈E$". Furthermore, do not ever use symbols like "$∀$" unless you use them properly (quantifiers must always be put in front of the quantified statement).
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff ( $f_n(x)-f(x) → 0$ as $n→∞$ ) for every $x∈E$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $sup_{x∈E} |f_n(x)-f(x)| → 0$ as $n→∞$.
In one case the convergence may proceed differently for different $x∈E$. In the other case the sup norm between $f_n$ and $f$ (over all $x∈E$) must tend to zero, which intuitively means the convergence must proceed uniformly for all $x∈E$.
In no way is it possible to correctly express uniform convergence using the expression you used, so it is most likely that you did not actually copy the definition or notation given to you.
In purely logical form:
$
defnn{mathbb{N}}
defrr{mathbb{R}}
$
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff $∀x∈E ∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ∀x∈E ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
This is an instance of a (restricted) quantifier swap. It is a basic logic fact that one implies the other, easily summarized as "$∃∀ ⇒ ∀∃$", but the reverse implication may not hold.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What you wrote is actually ill-formed, and that is why it is completely wrong. Nowhere did you specify or quantify $n$ in "$f_n(x) → f(x)$, $∀x∈E$". Furthermore, do not ever use symbols like "$∀$" unless you use them properly (quantifiers must always be put in front of the quantified statement).
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff ( $f_n(x)-f(x) → 0$ as $n→∞$ ) for every $x∈E$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $sup_{x∈E} |f_n(x)-f(x)| → 0$ as $n→∞$.
In one case the convergence may proceed differently for different $x∈E$. In the other case the sup norm between $f_n$ and $f$ (over all $x∈E$) must tend to zero, which intuitively means the convergence must proceed uniformly for all $x∈E$.
In no way is it possible to correctly express uniform convergence using the expression you used, so it is most likely that you did not actually copy the definition or notation given to you.
In purely logical form:
$
defnn{mathbb{N}}
defrr{mathbb{R}}
$
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff $∀x∈E ∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ∀x∈E ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
This is an instance of a (restricted) quantifier swap. It is a basic logic fact that one implies the other, easily summarized as "$∃∀ ⇒ ∀∃$", but the reverse implication may not hold.
$endgroup$
What you wrote is actually ill-formed, and that is why it is completely wrong. Nowhere did you specify or quantify $n$ in "$f_n(x) → f(x)$, $∀x∈E$". Furthermore, do not ever use symbols like "$∀$" unless you use them properly (quantifiers must always be put in front of the quantified statement).
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff ( $f_n(x)-f(x) → 0$ as $n→∞$ ) for every $x∈E$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $sup_{x∈E} |f_n(x)-f(x)| → 0$ as $n→∞$.
In one case the convergence may proceed differently for different $x∈E$. In the other case the sup norm between $f_n$ and $f$ (over all $x∈E$) must tend to zero, which intuitively means the convergence must proceed uniformly for all $x∈E$.
In no way is it possible to correctly express uniform convergence using the expression you used, so it is most likely that you did not actually copy the definition or notation given to you.
In purely logical form:
$
defnn{mathbb{N}}
defrr{mathbb{R}}
$
$f_n → f$ pointwise as $n→infty$ iff $∀x∈E ∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
$f_n → f$ uniformly as $n→infty$ iff $∀ε∈rr_{>0} ∃k∈nn ∀n∈nn_{≥k} ∀x∈E ( |f_n(x)-f(x)| < ε )$.
This is an instance of a (restricted) quantifier swap. It is a basic logic fact that one implies the other, easily summarized as "$∃∀ ⇒ ∀∃$", but the reverse implication may not hold.
edited Jan 6 at 15:40
answered Jan 6 at 14:38
user21820user21820
39.7k543157
39.7k543157
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3063473%2fwhat-is-the-main-difference-between-pointwise-and-uniform-convergence-as-defined%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
7
$begingroup$
Please refer to the original definition, not the altered version. In your post, these are identical.
$endgroup$
– xbh
Jan 6 at 4:45