Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent? [duplicate]











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  • Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent?



I am currently learning symmetries/group theory and I learnt that the fundamental representation and the anti-fundamental representation of $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ are not equivalent. This means that no similarity transformation can map one of them to the other.



My professor gave an explanation (on the 2nd last paragraph on page 75 of the following document http://www-pnp.physics.ox.ac.uk/~tseng/teaching/b2/b2-lectures-2018.pdf) but I don't see how the difference in the signs in the exponent imply that the representations are inequivalent.



Can anyone please explain the explanation of my professor, or perhaps give another explanation?










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  • 3




    Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:27










  • @marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
    – foxielmao
    Nov 25 at 2:34






  • 2




    Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:36






  • 1




    I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 3:21










  • I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 25 at 3:47















up vote
5
down vote

favorite













This question is an exact duplicate of:




  • Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent?



I am currently learning symmetries/group theory and I learnt that the fundamental representation and the anti-fundamental representation of $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ are not equivalent. This means that no similarity transformation can map one of them to the other.



My professor gave an explanation (on the 2nd last paragraph on page 75 of the following document http://www-pnp.physics.ox.ac.uk/~tseng/teaching/b2/b2-lectures-2018.pdf) but I don't see how the difference in the signs in the exponent imply that the representations are inequivalent.



Can anyone please explain the explanation of my professor, or perhaps give another explanation?










share|cite|improve this question













marked as duplicate by Matthew Towers, Lord Shark the Unknown, Did, amWhy group-theory
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  • 3




    Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:27










  • @marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
    – foxielmao
    Nov 25 at 2:34






  • 2




    Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:36






  • 1




    I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 3:21










  • I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 25 at 3:47













up vote
5
down vote

favorite









up vote
5
down vote

favorite












This question is an exact duplicate of:




  • Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent?



I am currently learning symmetries/group theory and I learnt that the fundamental representation and the anti-fundamental representation of $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ are not equivalent. This means that no similarity transformation can map one of them to the other.



My professor gave an explanation (on the 2nd last paragraph on page 75 of the following document http://www-pnp.physics.ox.ac.uk/~tseng/teaching/b2/b2-lectures-2018.pdf) but I don't see how the difference in the signs in the exponent imply that the representations are inequivalent.



Can anyone please explain the explanation of my professor, or perhaps give another explanation?










share|cite|improve this question














This question is an exact duplicate of:




  • Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent?



I am currently learning symmetries/group theory and I learnt that the fundamental representation and the anti-fundamental representation of $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ are not equivalent. This means that no similarity transformation can map one of them to the other.



My professor gave an explanation (on the 2nd last paragraph on page 75 of the following document http://www-pnp.physics.ox.ac.uk/~tseng/teaching/b2/b2-lectures-2018.pdf) but I don't see how the difference in the signs in the exponent imply that the representations are inequivalent.



Can anyone please explain the explanation of my professor, or perhaps give another explanation?





This question is an exact duplicate of:




  • Why are the fundamental and anti-fundamental representation in $SL(2,mathbb{C})$ not equivalent?







special-relativity group-theory representation-theory






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asked Nov 25 at 1:37









foxielmao

1169




1169




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  • 3




    Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:27










  • @marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
    – foxielmao
    Nov 25 at 2:34






  • 2




    Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:36






  • 1




    I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 3:21










  • I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 25 at 3:47














  • 3




    Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:27










  • @marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
    – foxielmao
    Nov 25 at 2:34






  • 2




    Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 2:36






  • 1




    I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
    – marmot
    Nov 25 at 3:21










  • I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
    – AccidentalFourierTransform
    Nov 25 at 3:47








3




3




Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
– marmot
Nov 25 at 2:27




Two representations are equivalent iff there is an intertwiner. In this case that means that you need to find a matrix $S$ such that $U=Scdot overline{U}cdot S^{-1}$, where $U$ is a transformation matrix of $(1/2,0)$ spinors and $overline{U}$ is the corresponding matrix for $(0,1/2)$ matrices. If you can find such an $S$, you prove your professor wrong, but I'm afraid you won't succeed. ;-)
– marmot
Nov 25 at 2:27












@marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
– foxielmao
Nov 25 at 2:34




@marmot Is there a rigorous way to show that it isn't possible to find a matrix S?
– foxielmao
Nov 25 at 2:34




2




2




Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
– marmot
Nov 25 at 2:36




Yes, of course. Hint: establish that $S$ is unity by just looking at rotations (in your professor's conventions) and then show that this does not work for boosts.
– marmot
Nov 25 at 2:36




1




1




I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
– marmot
Nov 25 at 3:21




I hope someone else walks you through. My problem is that I do not know what you know. Do you know Schur's lemma? If yes, it is simple, if not, I'd have to explain it here. (If you don't, I'd recommend to just believe you professor for the time being and attend a lecture on group theory, if possible. If you are interested in theoretical physics, this will be a very useful course.)
– marmot
Nov 25 at 3:21












I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 25 at 3:47




I voted to migrate this to Math.SE.
– AccidentalFourierTransform
Nov 25 at 3:47










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
0
down vote













This question will probably be migrated to Math SE, but I'll post this answer anyway to clear my conscience, after @marmot helped me see the flaw in the answer I posted earlier.



$SL(2,mathbb{C})$ is the group of $2times 2$ matrices with determinant $1$. This way of defining it provides one representation using $2times 2$ matrices. To get another such representation, we can replace all of these matrices by their complex conjugates. The claim is that these two representations are inequivalent. In other words, the claim is that there is no invertible matrix $S$ that satisfies
$$
M = S^{-1}M^*S
tag{1}
$$

for all $2times 2$ matrices $M$ with $det M=1$. Equation (1) can also be written
$$
SM = M^*S.
tag{2}
$$

Now, consider matrices of the form
$$
M = left(begin{matrix} z & 0 \ 0 & 1/zend{matrix}right)
tag{3}
$$

with a complex number $zneq 0$. This has $det M=1$, and there is no non-zero matrix $S$ that satisfies (2) for all matrices of the form (3). This can be proven by writing down the most general matrix $S$ and substituting it into (2) with $M$ given by (3).






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • @marmot Better?
    – Dan Yand
    Nov 25 at 5:32






  • 3




    Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
    – Elio Fabri
    Nov 25 at 11:18


















1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
0
down vote













This question will probably be migrated to Math SE, but I'll post this answer anyway to clear my conscience, after @marmot helped me see the flaw in the answer I posted earlier.



$SL(2,mathbb{C})$ is the group of $2times 2$ matrices with determinant $1$. This way of defining it provides one representation using $2times 2$ matrices. To get another such representation, we can replace all of these matrices by their complex conjugates. The claim is that these two representations are inequivalent. In other words, the claim is that there is no invertible matrix $S$ that satisfies
$$
M = S^{-1}M^*S
tag{1}
$$

for all $2times 2$ matrices $M$ with $det M=1$. Equation (1) can also be written
$$
SM = M^*S.
tag{2}
$$

Now, consider matrices of the form
$$
M = left(begin{matrix} z & 0 \ 0 & 1/zend{matrix}right)
tag{3}
$$

with a complex number $zneq 0$. This has $det M=1$, and there is no non-zero matrix $S$ that satisfies (2) for all matrices of the form (3). This can be proven by writing down the most general matrix $S$ and substituting it into (2) with $M$ given by (3).






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • @marmot Better?
    – Dan Yand
    Nov 25 at 5:32






  • 3




    Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
    – Elio Fabri
    Nov 25 at 11:18















up vote
0
down vote













This question will probably be migrated to Math SE, but I'll post this answer anyway to clear my conscience, after @marmot helped me see the flaw in the answer I posted earlier.



$SL(2,mathbb{C})$ is the group of $2times 2$ matrices with determinant $1$. This way of defining it provides one representation using $2times 2$ matrices. To get another such representation, we can replace all of these matrices by their complex conjugates. The claim is that these two representations are inequivalent. In other words, the claim is that there is no invertible matrix $S$ that satisfies
$$
M = S^{-1}M^*S
tag{1}
$$

for all $2times 2$ matrices $M$ with $det M=1$. Equation (1) can also be written
$$
SM = M^*S.
tag{2}
$$

Now, consider matrices of the form
$$
M = left(begin{matrix} z & 0 \ 0 & 1/zend{matrix}right)
tag{3}
$$

with a complex number $zneq 0$. This has $det M=1$, and there is no non-zero matrix $S$ that satisfies (2) for all matrices of the form (3). This can be proven by writing down the most general matrix $S$ and substituting it into (2) with $M$ given by (3).






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • @marmot Better?
    – Dan Yand
    Nov 25 at 5:32






  • 3




    Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
    – Elio Fabri
    Nov 25 at 11:18













up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









This question will probably be migrated to Math SE, but I'll post this answer anyway to clear my conscience, after @marmot helped me see the flaw in the answer I posted earlier.



$SL(2,mathbb{C})$ is the group of $2times 2$ matrices with determinant $1$. This way of defining it provides one representation using $2times 2$ matrices. To get another such representation, we can replace all of these matrices by their complex conjugates. The claim is that these two representations are inequivalent. In other words, the claim is that there is no invertible matrix $S$ that satisfies
$$
M = S^{-1}M^*S
tag{1}
$$

for all $2times 2$ matrices $M$ with $det M=1$. Equation (1) can also be written
$$
SM = M^*S.
tag{2}
$$

Now, consider matrices of the form
$$
M = left(begin{matrix} z & 0 \ 0 & 1/zend{matrix}right)
tag{3}
$$

with a complex number $zneq 0$. This has $det M=1$, and there is no non-zero matrix $S$ that satisfies (2) for all matrices of the form (3). This can be proven by writing down the most general matrix $S$ and substituting it into (2) with $M$ given by (3).






share|cite|improve this answer












This question will probably be migrated to Math SE, but I'll post this answer anyway to clear my conscience, after @marmot helped me see the flaw in the answer I posted earlier.



$SL(2,mathbb{C})$ is the group of $2times 2$ matrices with determinant $1$. This way of defining it provides one representation using $2times 2$ matrices. To get another such representation, we can replace all of these matrices by their complex conjugates. The claim is that these two representations are inequivalent. In other words, the claim is that there is no invertible matrix $S$ that satisfies
$$
M = S^{-1}M^*S
tag{1}
$$

for all $2times 2$ matrices $M$ with $det M=1$. Equation (1) can also be written
$$
SM = M^*S.
tag{2}
$$

Now, consider matrices of the form
$$
M = left(begin{matrix} z & 0 \ 0 & 1/zend{matrix}right)
tag{3}
$$

with a complex number $zneq 0$. This has $det M=1$, and there is no non-zero matrix $S$ that satisfies (2) for all matrices of the form (3). This can be proven by writing down the most general matrix $S$ and substituting it into (2) with $M$ given by (3).







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Nov 25 at 5:06









Dan Yand

1116




1116












  • @marmot Better?
    – Dan Yand
    Nov 25 at 5:32






  • 3




    Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
    – Elio Fabri
    Nov 25 at 11:18


















  • @marmot Better?
    – Dan Yand
    Nov 25 at 5:32






  • 3




    Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
    – Elio Fabri
    Nov 25 at 11:18
















@marmot Better?
– Dan Yand
Nov 25 at 5:32




@marmot Better?
– Dan Yand
Nov 25 at 5:32




3




3




Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
– Elio Fabri
Nov 25 at 11:18




Much simpler. Your eq. (1) implies that $M$ and $M^*$ have the same trace, i.e. trace is real. $M$ defined in (3) has complex trace (in general).
– Elio Fabri
Nov 25 at 11:18



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