The measure of a sequence of open sets












0












$begingroup$


Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    $endgroup$
    – Rigel
    Jan 5 at 14:53


















0












$begingroup$


Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    $endgroup$
    – Rigel
    Jan 5 at 14:53
















0












0








0


1



$begingroup$


Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Another fun qualifying exam practice question!



Suppose $E$ is a given set and $O_n$ is the open set defined as $O_n = left{x: operatorname{dist}(x,E) < frac1nright}$



a) Show that if $E$ is compact then $m(E) = lim_{n to infty} m(O_n)$



What I have so far:
Define $B_k = bigcap^k_{i=0}O_n = O_k$



Then $B_{k+1} subseteq B_k$



Also $lim_{n rightarrow infty}B_k = bigcap^infty_{i=0}O_n = E$
(Since $E$ is closed and bounded? I'm not really sure why this is true!)



So $B_k$ converges downward to $E$. Since measures are monotone, $m(B_k)$ converges downward to $m(E)$



So $lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(B_k)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(bigcap^k_{n=1}O_n)
=lim_{k rightarrow infty}m(O_k)=m(E)$



Basically I'm wondering how compactness plays into this argument.



b) Show that the conclusion may be false for $E$ closed and unbounded or open and bounded.



Since I'm not sure how compactness plays into the above argument I'm having a hard time coming up with a counter example.







general-topology measure-theory






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 5 at 14:55









Henrik

6,04592030




6,04592030










asked Jan 5 at 14:45









Math LadyMath Lady

1196




1196












  • $begingroup$
    Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    $endgroup$
    – Rigel
    Jan 5 at 14:53




















  • $begingroup$
    Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
    $endgroup$
    – Rigel
    Jan 5 at 14:53


















$begingroup$
Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
$endgroup$
– Rigel
Jan 5 at 14:53






$begingroup$
Your argument works if $m(O_1)$ is finite and $bigcap O_i = E$, so...
$endgroup$
– Rigel
Jan 5 at 14:53












4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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3












$begingroup$

If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



$E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



Under that extra condition your solution works.



If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    1












    $begingroup$

    You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
    The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



    The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      1












      $begingroup$

      So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



      1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



      2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$





















        0












        $begingroup$

        I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



        (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
        $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
        (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



        (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



        Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






        share|cite|improve this answer











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          4 Answers
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          active

          oldest

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          4 Answers
          4






          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

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          active

          oldest

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          3












          $begingroup$

          If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



          $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



          Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



          Under that extra condition your solution works.



          If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$


















            3












            $begingroup$

            If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



            $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



            Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



            Under that extra condition your solution works.



            If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$
















              3












              3








              3





              $begingroup$

              If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



              $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



              Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



              Under that extra condition your solution works.



              If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$



              If $xinbigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$ then $d(x,E)<frac1n$ for every positive integer $n$ and this can only be true iff $d(x,E)=0$ or equivalently $xinoverline E$.



              $E$ is compact hence closed so that $E=overline E$, so we have $E=bigcap_{n=1}^{infty}O_n$.



              Actually here we only need that $E$ is closed, but the condition of boundedness comes in to ensure that $m(O_n)<infty$ for some $n$.



              Under that extra condition your solution works.



              If we would e.g. take $E=mathbb Rtimes{0}subseteqmathbb R^2$ then $m(O_n)=infty$ for every $n$.







              share|cite|improve this answer












              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer










              answered Jan 5 at 14:57









              drhabdrhab

              103k545136




              103k545136























                  1












                  $begingroup$

                  You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                  The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                  The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$


















                    1












                    $begingroup$

                    You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                    The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                    The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$
















                      1












                      1








                      1





                      $begingroup$

                      You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                      The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                      The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      You need closedness for $bigcap_n O_n = E$ to hold: if $x$ lies in the intersection it means that $d(x,E)=0$ which is equivalent to $x in overline{E}$, so $x in E$ if $E$ is closed. So $bigcap_n O_n = overline{E}$ holds in general. We do not need boundedness of $E$ at all, that I can see.
                      The continuity argument for $m$ works when we have finite measure for $O_1$ (And hence all $O_n$) and it could fail for infinite measures.



                      The $B_k$ are unnecessary as the $O_n$ are already decreasing themselves: $x in O_{n+1}$ or $d(x, E) < frac{1}{n+1}$ trivially implies $d(x,E) < frac{1}{n}$ or $x in O_n$, as $frac{1}{n+1} < frac{1}{n}$, so $O_{n+1} subseteq O_n$. It's the standard way to write a closed set as the intersection of countably many open sets in a metric space.







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Jan 5 at 14:58









                      Henno BrandsmaHenno Brandsma

                      113k348122




                      113k348122























                          1












                          $begingroup$

                          So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                          1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                          2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$


















                            1












                            $begingroup$

                            So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                            1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                            2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$
















                              1












                              1








                              1





                              $begingroup$

                              So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                              1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                              2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$



                              So far none of the answers address part (b) of your question fully, so I will give you two examples below:



                              1) To see why being bounded is crucial to the argument, consider $E=mathbb{Z}subsetmathbb{R}$.



                              2) To see why being closed is crucial consider an enumeration of the rationals inside the unit interval, say $(q_k)$, and place an open interval on top of each $q_k$ of length $epsiloncdot2^{-k}$ in order to construct your set $E$.







                              share|cite|improve this answer












                              share|cite|improve this answer



                              share|cite|improve this answer










                              answered Jan 5 at 15:05









                              ItsJustAMeasureBroItsJustAMeasureBro

                              342




                              342























                                  0












                                  $begingroup$

                                  I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                  (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                  $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                  (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                  (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                  Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                  share|cite|improve this answer











                                  $endgroup$


















                                    0












                                    $begingroup$

                                    I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                    (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                    $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                    (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                    (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                    Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                    $endgroup$
















                                      0












                                      0








                                      0





                                      $begingroup$

                                      I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                      (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                      $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                      (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                      (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                      Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer











                                      $endgroup$



                                      I'm assuming you mean that $Esubseteqmathbb{R}$.



                                      (a) Note that $bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_n={x:d(x,E)=0}$, which is just the closure of $E$, which since $E$ is compact is just $E$ itself. By continuity of Lebesgue measure together with $O_nsupseteq O_{n+1}$ we now have
                                      $$m(E)=mleft(bigcap_{n=1}^infty O_nright)=lim_{ntoinfty}m(O_n).$$
                                      (Note that the second equality holds if and only if the measures are finite.)



                                      (b) For closed and unbounded $E$, take $E=mathbb{N}$. For open and bounded $E$, take the complement of the fat Cantor set in $[0,1]$.



                                      Good luck with the Quals! That brings back memories.







                                      share|cite|improve this answer














                                      share|cite|improve this answer



                                      share|cite|improve this answer








                                      edited Jan 5 at 15:12

























                                      answered Jan 5 at 15:07









                                      Ben WBen W

                                      2,276615




                                      2,276615






























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