Derive Group Law on Elliptic Curve with Riemann Roch
$begingroup$
Consider $E$ be an elliptic curve and $k$ a field. I read that one way to show that $E(k)$ has an abelian group structure can be derived using Riemann Roch. Could anybody explain how it concretely provides the desired result?
My considerations:
We have a group of divisors $Div(E)$ where the divisors are formal sums $sum_{P in E(k)} n_P (P)$ with $n_P in mathbb{Z}$ and the principal divisors $div(f) = sum_P ord_P(f) (P)$ form a subgroup of $Div(E)$; denote it by $PrDiv(E)$.
The divisor class group is the quotient $Cl(E)= Div(E)/PrDiv(E)$.
We can define canonically a map $E(k) to Cl(E), p to (P)-(O)$ where $O$ is the special point (=neutral element).
Obviously it suffice to show that every divisor $D$ obtained from intersection of a line $L$ with $E$ has three points (counted we multiplicies). Or in language of divisors: For $D:= L cap E$ we have to show that $deg(D)=3$, so $D= (P) + (Q) +(R) + div(f)$ for some principal divisor $div(f)$. This would settle $P+Q=-R$.
But I have some problems to derive it with Riemann Roch:
The RR-formula is:
$$l(D)-l(K-D) = deg(D) +g-1$$
Since $E$ elliptic $g=1$ so it suffice to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$.
And here I stuck. I know that $l(D) := dim_kH^0(D, mathcal{O}_D)$ but this doesn't help me. Futhermore what to do with $l(K-D)$?
Remark: I know that there are a lot of other ways to derive the group law but the point of this question is to derive it using Riemann Roch.
Background on my question: @Awenshi's comment in https://mathoverflow.net/questions/6870/why-is-an-elliptic-curve-a-group
algebraic-geometry elliptic-curves divisors-algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider $E$ be an elliptic curve and $k$ a field. I read that one way to show that $E(k)$ has an abelian group structure can be derived using Riemann Roch. Could anybody explain how it concretely provides the desired result?
My considerations:
We have a group of divisors $Div(E)$ where the divisors are formal sums $sum_{P in E(k)} n_P (P)$ with $n_P in mathbb{Z}$ and the principal divisors $div(f) = sum_P ord_P(f) (P)$ form a subgroup of $Div(E)$; denote it by $PrDiv(E)$.
The divisor class group is the quotient $Cl(E)= Div(E)/PrDiv(E)$.
We can define canonically a map $E(k) to Cl(E), p to (P)-(O)$ where $O$ is the special point (=neutral element).
Obviously it suffice to show that every divisor $D$ obtained from intersection of a line $L$ with $E$ has three points (counted we multiplicies). Or in language of divisors: For $D:= L cap E$ we have to show that $deg(D)=3$, so $D= (P) + (Q) +(R) + div(f)$ for some principal divisor $div(f)$. This would settle $P+Q=-R$.
But I have some problems to derive it with Riemann Roch:
The RR-formula is:
$$l(D)-l(K-D) = deg(D) +g-1$$
Since $E$ elliptic $g=1$ so it suffice to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$.
And here I stuck. I know that $l(D) := dim_kH^0(D, mathcal{O}_D)$ but this doesn't help me. Futhermore what to do with $l(K-D)$?
Remark: I know that there are a lot of other ways to derive the group law but the point of this question is to derive it using Riemann Roch.
Background on my question: @Awenshi's comment in https://mathoverflow.net/questions/6870/why-is-an-elliptic-curve-a-group
algebraic-geometry elliptic-curves divisors-algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider $E$ be an elliptic curve and $k$ a field. I read that one way to show that $E(k)$ has an abelian group structure can be derived using Riemann Roch. Could anybody explain how it concretely provides the desired result?
My considerations:
We have a group of divisors $Div(E)$ where the divisors are formal sums $sum_{P in E(k)} n_P (P)$ with $n_P in mathbb{Z}$ and the principal divisors $div(f) = sum_P ord_P(f) (P)$ form a subgroup of $Div(E)$; denote it by $PrDiv(E)$.
The divisor class group is the quotient $Cl(E)= Div(E)/PrDiv(E)$.
We can define canonically a map $E(k) to Cl(E), p to (P)-(O)$ where $O$ is the special point (=neutral element).
Obviously it suffice to show that every divisor $D$ obtained from intersection of a line $L$ with $E$ has three points (counted we multiplicies). Or in language of divisors: For $D:= L cap E$ we have to show that $deg(D)=3$, so $D= (P) + (Q) +(R) + div(f)$ for some principal divisor $div(f)$. This would settle $P+Q=-R$.
But I have some problems to derive it with Riemann Roch:
The RR-formula is:
$$l(D)-l(K-D) = deg(D) +g-1$$
Since $E$ elliptic $g=1$ so it suffice to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$.
And here I stuck. I know that $l(D) := dim_kH^0(D, mathcal{O}_D)$ but this doesn't help me. Futhermore what to do with $l(K-D)$?
Remark: I know that there are a lot of other ways to derive the group law but the point of this question is to derive it using Riemann Roch.
Background on my question: @Awenshi's comment in https://mathoverflow.net/questions/6870/why-is-an-elliptic-curve-a-group
algebraic-geometry elliptic-curves divisors-algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
Consider $E$ be an elliptic curve and $k$ a field. I read that one way to show that $E(k)$ has an abelian group structure can be derived using Riemann Roch. Could anybody explain how it concretely provides the desired result?
My considerations:
We have a group of divisors $Div(E)$ where the divisors are formal sums $sum_{P in E(k)} n_P (P)$ with $n_P in mathbb{Z}$ and the principal divisors $div(f) = sum_P ord_P(f) (P)$ form a subgroup of $Div(E)$; denote it by $PrDiv(E)$.
The divisor class group is the quotient $Cl(E)= Div(E)/PrDiv(E)$.
We can define canonically a map $E(k) to Cl(E), p to (P)-(O)$ where $O$ is the special point (=neutral element).
Obviously it suffice to show that every divisor $D$ obtained from intersection of a line $L$ with $E$ has three points (counted we multiplicies). Or in language of divisors: For $D:= L cap E$ we have to show that $deg(D)=3$, so $D= (P) + (Q) +(R) + div(f)$ for some principal divisor $div(f)$. This would settle $P+Q=-R$.
But I have some problems to derive it with Riemann Roch:
The RR-formula is:
$$l(D)-l(K-D) = deg(D) +g-1$$
Since $E$ elliptic $g=1$ so it suffice to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$.
And here I stuck. I know that $l(D) := dim_kH^0(D, mathcal{O}_D)$ but this doesn't help me. Futhermore what to do with $l(K-D)$?
Remark: I know that there are a lot of other ways to derive the group law but the point of this question is to derive it using Riemann Roch.
Background on my question: @Awenshi's comment in https://mathoverflow.net/questions/6870/why-is-an-elliptic-curve-a-group
algebraic-geometry elliptic-curves divisors-algebraic-geometry
algebraic-geometry elliptic-curves divisors-algebraic-geometry
asked Jan 14 at 0:02
KarlPeterKarlPeter
7411416
7411416
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
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oldest
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$begingroup$
The idea is to prove that the map that you defined above (called the Abel-Jacobi map) $$begin{align*}
J colon E(k) &to mathrm{Pic}^0(E)\
P &mapsto (P)-(O)
end{align*}$$
is a bijection, where $mathrm{Pic}^0(E)$ is the subgroup of $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ of elements of degree $0$. Then the group law of $E(k)$ will be the one that makes the map above an isomorphism of groups.
Remarks: In this context $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ is just another notation for $mathrm{Cl}(E)$. As $k$ may not be algebraically closed we have to recall that the degree of $D=sum_{pin E}n_p(P)$ is given by $deg(D)=sum_{pin E}n_p[k(p):k]$ so we have $Pin E(k)$ if and only if $deg(P)=1$.
Injectivity of the map came from the fact that if
$(P)-(Q)=text{div}(f)$ then by replacing $D=(Q)$ on Riemann-Roch we
get $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ and hence $fin H^0(E,Q)$ must be constant.
Over an algebraically closed field you can also proceed without R-R as here.
Surjectivity came from the fact that if $Din mathrm{Div}^0(E)$ then by R-R we have $h^0(D+(O))=1$ so if $fin H^0(E,D+(O))$ is not constant we have $text{div}(f)=-D-(O)+(P)$ for some $P$. As $deg(D)=deg(mathrm{div}(f))=0$ we get $deg(P)=deg(O)=1$ hence $Pin E(k)$ and then $$Pmapsto (P)-(O)sim D$$
Now to prove that this group law $oplus$ coincides with the geometric group law (the one defined with lines) when $E$ is given by a Weierstrass equation $$E:Y^2Z=4X^3-aX^2-bZ^3$$ it's enough to notice that $Poplus Qoplus R = O$
$iff$ $P,Q,R$ are coolinear $iff$ there is a degree one homogeneous polynomial $F(X,Y,Z)$ with $V(F)={P,Q,R}$ $iff$ $mathrm{div}(frac{F}{Z})=(P)+(Q)+(R)-3(O)$
(notice that the intersection multiplicity between $V(Z)$ and $E$ is $3$, hence the $3(O)$ term) $iff$ $P+Q+R=O$ with the addition descrived above. Notice that all the above its true when the set ${P,Q,R}$ degenerates with tangencies.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do you know that for an elliptic curve $K$ is the zero divisor? That is, $K=mathcal{O}_E$? If you knew this, RR implies $l(D)geq 3$ first. Thus $D$ is an effective divisor of degree 3 and thus $l(K-D)=l(-D)=0$, since negative degree divisor can not be effective. Then, you have $l(D)=3$, which is what you want.
I do not understand your statement `so it suffices to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$', but isn't that what RR says, since $deg D=3$?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
2
active
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$begingroup$
The idea is to prove that the map that you defined above (called the Abel-Jacobi map) $$begin{align*}
J colon E(k) &to mathrm{Pic}^0(E)\
P &mapsto (P)-(O)
end{align*}$$
is a bijection, where $mathrm{Pic}^0(E)$ is the subgroup of $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ of elements of degree $0$. Then the group law of $E(k)$ will be the one that makes the map above an isomorphism of groups.
Remarks: In this context $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ is just another notation for $mathrm{Cl}(E)$. As $k$ may not be algebraically closed we have to recall that the degree of $D=sum_{pin E}n_p(P)$ is given by $deg(D)=sum_{pin E}n_p[k(p):k]$ so we have $Pin E(k)$ if and only if $deg(P)=1$.
Injectivity of the map came from the fact that if
$(P)-(Q)=text{div}(f)$ then by replacing $D=(Q)$ on Riemann-Roch we
get $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ and hence $fin H^0(E,Q)$ must be constant.
Over an algebraically closed field you can also proceed without R-R as here.
Surjectivity came from the fact that if $Din mathrm{Div}^0(E)$ then by R-R we have $h^0(D+(O))=1$ so if $fin H^0(E,D+(O))$ is not constant we have $text{div}(f)=-D-(O)+(P)$ for some $P$. As $deg(D)=deg(mathrm{div}(f))=0$ we get $deg(P)=deg(O)=1$ hence $Pin E(k)$ and then $$Pmapsto (P)-(O)sim D$$
Now to prove that this group law $oplus$ coincides with the geometric group law (the one defined with lines) when $E$ is given by a Weierstrass equation $$E:Y^2Z=4X^3-aX^2-bZ^3$$ it's enough to notice that $Poplus Qoplus R = O$
$iff$ $P,Q,R$ are coolinear $iff$ there is a degree one homogeneous polynomial $F(X,Y,Z)$ with $V(F)={P,Q,R}$ $iff$ $mathrm{div}(frac{F}{Z})=(P)+(Q)+(R)-3(O)$
(notice that the intersection multiplicity between $V(Z)$ and $E$ is $3$, hence the $3(O)$ term) $iff$ $P+Q+R=O$ with the addition descrived above. Notice that all the above its true when the set ${P,Q,R}$ degenerates with tangencies.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea is to prove that the map that you defined above (called the Abel-Jacobi map) $$begin{align*}
J colon E(k) &to mathrm{Pic}^0(E)\
P &mapsto (P)-(O)
end{align*}$$
is a bijection, where $mathrm{Pic}^0(E)$ is the subgroup of $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ of elements of degree $0$. Then the group law of $E(k)$ will be the one that makes the map above an isomorphism of groups.
Remarks: In this context $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ is just another notation for $mathrm{Cl}(E)$. As $k$ may not be algebraically closed we have to recall that the degree of $D=sum_{pin E}n_p(P)$ is given by $deg(D)=sum_{pin E}n_p[k(p):k]$ so we have $Pin E(k)$ if and only if $deg(P)=1$.
Injectivity of the map came from the fact that if
$(P)-(Q)=text{div}(f)$ then by replacing $D=(Q)$ on Riemann-Roch we
get $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ and hence $fin H^0(E,Q)$ must be constant.
Over an algebraically closed field you can also proceed without R-R as here.
Surjectivity came from the fact that if $Din mathrm{Div}^0(E)$ then by R-R we have $h^0(D+(O))=1$ so if $fin H^0(E,D+(O))$ is not constant we have $text{div}(f)=-D-(O)+(P)$ for some $P$. As $deg(D)=deg(mathrm{div}(f))=0$ we get $deg(P)=deg(O)=1$ hence $Pin E(k)$ and then $$Pmapsto (P)-(O)sim D$$
Now to prove that this group law $oplus$ coincides with the geometric group law (the one defined with lines) when $E$ is given by a Weierstrass equation $$E:Y^2Z=4X^3-aX^2-bZ^3$$ it's enough to notice that $Poplus Qoplus R = O$
$iff$ $P,Q,R$ are coolinear $iff$ there is a degree one homogeneous polynomial $F(X,Y,Z)$ with $V(F)={P,Q,R}$ $iff$ $mathrm{div}(frac{F}{Z})=(P)+(Q)+(R)-3(O)$
(notice that the intersection multiplicity between $V(Z)$ and $E$ is $3$, hence the $3(O)$ term) $iff$ $P+Q+R=O$ with the addition descrived above. Notice that all the above its true when the set ${P,Q,R}$ degenerates with tangencies.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The idea is to prove that the map that you defined above (called the Abel-Jacobi map) $$begin{align*}
J colon E(k) &to mathrm{Pic}^0(E)\
P &mapsto (P)-(O)
end{align*}$$
is a bijection, where $mathrm{Pic}^0(E)$ is the subgroup of $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ of elements of degree $0$. Then the group law of $E(k)$ will be the one that makes the map above an isomorphism of groups.
Remarks: In this context $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ is just another notation for $mathrm{Cl}(E)$. As $k$ may not be algebraically closed we have to recall that the degree of $D=sum_{pin E}n_p(P)$ is given by $deg(D)=sum_{pin E}n_p[k(p):k]$ so we have $Pin E(k)$ if and only if $deg(P)=1$.
Injectivity of the map came from the fact that if
$(P)-(Q)=text{div}(f)$ then by replacing $D=(Q)$ on Riemann-Roch we
get $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ and hence $fin H^0(E,Q)$ must be constant.
Over an algebraically closed field you can also proceed without R-R as here.
Surjectivity came from the fact that if $Din mathrm{Div}^0(E)$ then by R-R we have $h^0(D+(O))=1$ so if $fin H^0(E,D+(O))$ is not constant we have $text{div}(f)=-D-(O)+(P)$ for some $P$. As $deg(D)=deg(mathrm{div}(f))=0$ we get $deg(P)=deg(O)=1$ hence $Pin E(k)$ and then $$Pmapsto (P)-(O)sim D$$
Now to prove that this group law $oplus$ coincides with the geometric group law (the one defined with lines) when $E$ is given by a Weierstrass equation $$E:Y^2Z=4X^3-aX^2-bZ^3$$ it's enough to notice that $Poplus Qoplus R = O$
$iff$ $P,Q,R$ are coolinear $iff$ there is a degree one homogeneous polynomial $F(X,Y,Z)$ with $V(F)={P,Q,R}$ $iff$ $mathrm{div}(frac{F}{Z})=(P)+(Q)+(R)-3(O)$
(notice that the intersection multiplicity between $V(Z)$ and $E$ is $3$, hence the $3(O)$ term) $iff$ $P+Q+R=O$ with the addition descrived above. Notice that all the above its true when the set ${P,Q,R}$ degenerates with tangencies.
$endgroup$
The idea is to prove that the map that you defined above (called the Abel-Jacobi map) $$begin{align*}
J colon E(k) &to mathrm{Pic}^0(E)\
P &mapsto (P)-(O)
end{align*}$$
is a bijection, where $mathrm{Pic}^0(E)$ is the subgroup of $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ of elements of degree $0$. Then the group law of $E(k)$ will be the one that makes the map above an isomorphism of groups.
Remarks: In this context $mathrm{Pic}(E)$ is just another notation for $mathrm{Cl}(E)$. As $k$ may not be algebraically closed we have to recall that the degree of $D=sum_{pin E}n_p(P)$ is given by $deg(D)=sum_{pin E}n_p[k(p):k]$ so we have $Pin E(k)$ if and only if $deg(P)=1$.
Injectivity of the map came from the fact that if
$(P)-(Q)=text{div}(f)$ then by replacing $D=(Q)$ on Riemann-Roch we
get $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ and hence $fin H^0(E,Q)$ must be constant.
Over an algebraically closed field you can also proceed without R-R as here.
Surjectivity came from the fact that if $Din mathrm{Div}^0(E)$ then by R-R we have $h^0(D+(O))=1$ so if $fin H^0(E,D+(O))$ is not constant we have $text{div}(f)=-D-(O)+(P)$ for some $P$. As $deg(D)=deg(mathrm{div}(f))=0$ we get $deg(P)=deg(O)=1$ hence $Pin E(k)$ and then $$Pmapsto (P)-(O)sim D$$
Now to prove that this group law $oplus$ coincides with the geometric group law (the one defined with lines) when $E$ is given by a Weierstrass equation $$E:Y^2Z=4X^3-aX^2-bZ^3$$ it's enough to notice that $Poplus Qoplus R = O$
$iff$ $P,Q,R$ are coolinear $iff$ there is a degree one homogeneous polynomial $F(X,Y,Z)$ with $V(F)={P,Q,R}$ $iff$ $mathrm{div}(frac{F}{Z})=(P)+(Q)+(R)-3(O)$
(notice that the intersection multiplicity between $V(Z)$ and $E$ is $3$, hence the $3(O)$ term) $iff$ $P+Q+R=O$ with the addition descrived above. Notice that all the above its true when the set ${P,Q,R}$ degenerates with tangencies.
edited Jan 14 at 2:15
answered Jan 14 at 2:06
yamete kudasaiyamete kudasai
1,165818
1,165818
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
So RR is only used to show bijectivity of the map? And the fact that all divisors of the shape $D = L cap E$ have $deg(D)=3$ follows from Bezout /intersection multiplicity argument? And so it can't be deduced directly with RR? One remark to your argument: How do you deduce $h^0(Q)=2-g=1$ in the "injectivity" part.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:22
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
With this approach (that I think is the most classic one) RR is only used to prove the bijectivity. Also you can use Bezout to prove that $Lcap E$ has degree 3 but you can also give an easy direct proof of Bezout when one curve is a line. The fact that $h^0(Q)=1$ came from $h^0(Q)=h^0(W-Q)+deg(Q)+1-g$ and $h^0(W-Q)=0$ because $deg(W-Q)=-1<0$ (recall that $deg(W)=2g-2$ in general).
$endgroup$
– yamete kudasai
Jan 14 at 2:31
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
$begingroup$
bwt: Do you see a quick argument that for the canonic divisor of ell curve $W= K_E$ we have $W = mathcal{O}_E$? RR says $h^0(W) = h^0(mathcal{O}_E)+deg(W) +g-1= h^0(mathcal{O}_E)=1$ since elliptic. I don't see wy this already imply $W = mathcal{O}_E$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 2:41
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do you know that for an elliptic curve $K$ is the zero divisor? That is, $K=mathcal{O}_E$? If you knew this, RR implies $l(D)geq 3$ first. Thus $D$ is an effective divisor of degree 3 and thus $l(K-D)=l(-D)=0$, since negative degree divisor can not be effective. Then, you have $l(D)=3$, which is what you want.
I do not understand your statement `so it suffices to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$', but isn't that what RR says, since $deg D=3$?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do you know that for an elliptic curve $K$ is the zero divisor? That is, $K=mathcal{O}_E$? If you knew this, RR implies $l(D)geq 3$ first. Thus $D$ is an effective divisor of degree 3 and thus $l(K-D)=l(-D)=0$, since negative degree divisor can not be effective. Then, you have $l(D)=3$, which is what you want.
I do not understand your statement `so it suffices to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$', but isn't that what RR says, since $deg D=3$?
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Do you know that for an elliptic curve $K$ is the zero divisor? That is, $K=mathcal{O}_E$? If you knew this, RR implies $l(D)geq 3$ first. Thus $D$ is an effective divisor of degree 3 and thus $l(K-D)=l(-D)=0$, since negative degree divisor can not be effective. Then, you have $l(D)=3$, which is what you want.
I do not understand your statement `so it suffices to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$', but isn't that what RR says, since $deg D=3$?
$endgroup$
Do you know that for an elliptic curve $K$ is the zero divisor? That is, $K=mathcal{O}_E$? If you knew this, RR implies $l(D)geq 3$ first. Thus $D$ is an effective divisor of degree 3 and thus $l(K-D)=l(-D)=0$, since negative degree divisor can not be effective. Then, you have $l(D)=3$, which is what you want.
I do not understand your statement `so it suffices to show $l(D)-l(K-D)=3$', but isn't that what RR says, since $deg D=3$?
answered Jan 14 at 1:07
MohanMohan
11.9k1817
11.9k1817
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
$begingroup$
Ah yes, of course we have $K=mathcal{O}_E$. I think this follows from $K_C = mathcal{O}(3-deg(C))$ for all nice enough curves $C subset mathbb{P}^2$. Then $K$ is exactly the structure sheaf. This reduces RR to $l(D)= deg(D)$. Now to your question: I think that $deg(D) =3$ is exactly the statement that has to be shown. So I don't understand how do you conclude $l(D) =3$.
$endgroup$
– KarlPeter
Jan 14 at 1:39
add a comment |
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