Why does L'Hopital's rule fail in this case?












101















$$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$$




This is of the indeterminate form of type $frac{infty}{infty}$, so we can apply l'Hopital's rule:



$$lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin(x)}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{(x)'}{(x+sin(x))'}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+cos(x)}$$



This limit doesn't exist, but the initial limit clearly approaches $1$. Where am I wrong?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 72




    If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
    – user251257
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:11






  • 8




    One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
    – Bernard
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:13






  • 3




    A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
    – Brian Tung
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:15






  • 2




    This post might give you something to think about.
    – Hirshy
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:23






  • 6




    An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
    – dwarandae
    Mar 24 '16 at 4:46
















101















$$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$$




This is of the indeterminate form of type $frac{infty}{infty}$, so we can apply l'Hopital's rule:



$$lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin(x)}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{(x)'}{(x+sin(x))'}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+cos(x)}$$



This limit doesn't exist, but the initial limit clearly approaches $1$. Where am I wrong?










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 72




    If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
    – user251257
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:11






  • 8




    One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
    – Bernard
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:13






  • 3




    A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
    – Brian Tung
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:15






  • 2




    This post might give you something to think about.
    – Hirshy
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:23






  • 6




    An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
    – dwarandae
    Mar 24 '16 at 4:46














101












101








101


41






$$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$$




This is of the indeterminate form of type $frac{infty}{infty}$, so we can apply l'Hopital's rule:



$$lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin(x)}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{(x)'}{(x+sin(x))'}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+cos(x)}$$



This limit doesn't exist, but the initial limit clearly approaches $1$. Where am I wrong?










share|cite|improve this question
















$$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$$




This is of the indeterminate form of type $frac{infty}{infty}$, so we can apply l'Hopital's rule:



$$lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin(x)}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{(x)'}{(x+sin(x))'}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+cos(x)}$$



This limit doesn't exist, but the initial limit clearly approaches $1$. Where am I wrong?







calculus limits limits-without-lhopital






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 24 '16 at 18:06









Barry Cipra

59.1k653124




59.1k653124










asked Mar 23 '16 at 21:08









Andrew Fount

7251612




7251612








  • 72




    If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
    – user251257
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:11






  • 8




    One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
    – Bernard
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:13






  • 3




    A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
    – Brian Tung
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:15






  • 2




    This post might give you something to think about.
    – Hirshy
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:23






  • 6




    An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
    – dwarandae
    Mar 24 '16 at 4:46














  • 72




    If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
    – user251257
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:11






  • 8




    One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
    – Bernard
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:13






  • 3




    A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
    – Brian Tung
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:15






  • 2




    This post might give you something to think about.
    – Hirshy
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:23






  • 6




    An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
    – dwarandae
    Mar 24 '16 at 4:46








72




72




If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
– user251257
Mar 23 '16 at 21:11




If the limit of $f'/g'$ exists, then it is also the limit of $f/g$. Not the other way around.
– user251257
Mar 23 '16 at 21:11




8




8




One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
– Bernard
Mar 23 '16 at 21:13




One often forgets there are hypotheses to check before applying L'Hospital. One of these is that the ratio of the derivatives must exist (or still be indeterminate).
– Bernard
Mar 23 '16 at 21:13




3




3




A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
– Brian Tung
Mar 23 '16 at 21:15




A condition on the use of L'Hôpital in this context is that the derivative of the denominator must be non-zero on $(N, infty)$ for some $N$.
– Brian Tung
Mar 23 '16 at 21:15




2




2




This post might give you something to think about.
– Hirshy
Mar 23 '16 at 21:23




This post might give you something to think about.
– Hirshy
Mar 23 '16 at 21:23




6




6




An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
– dwarandae
Mar 24 '16 at 4:46




An excellent example for a Calculus Course.
– dwarandae
Mar 24 '16 at 4:46










5 Answers
5






active

oldest

votes


















131














Your only error -- and it's a common one -- is in a subtle misreading of L'Hopital's rule. What the rules says is IF the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ exists then the limit of $f$ over $g$ also exists and the two limits are the same. It doesn't say anything if the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ doesn't exist.






share|cite|improve this answer

















  • 66




    Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
    – imranfat
    Mar 23 '16 at 21:18






  • 6




    What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
    – gnasher729
    Mar 25 '16 at 21:11



















37














L'Hopital's rule only tells you that if the modified limit exists and has value $L$, then the original limit also exists and has value $L$. It doesn't tell you that the converse holds.



So, the fact that the modified limit doesn't exist gives you no information about the original limit. So, you need a different method.



Consider something more direct: can you compute
$$
lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin x}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{sin x}{x}}?
$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
    – gnasher729
    Mar 24 '16 at 22:16






  • 2




    or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
    – djechlin
    Mar 25 '16 at 18:57



















12














Because you don't need it! And because one of the hypotheses (under which this technique applies) is not verified in this case.



Here, in layman terms, the ratio of derivatives does not have a limit. The de l'Hospital rule is sometimes (often) misused: a lot of people believe that if one cannot compute the limit of a ratio, it is easier to compute the limit of the ratio of derivative. This is not true in general. Derivatives are rarely more continuous than original functions.



And remember that the purpose of exercise is to train your mathematical skills, not to get the result. The teacher knows it already (hopefully). Using de L'Hôpital's rule is sometimes overkill, with which you don't learn what is going on with your function. It is better to try first simpler techniques, such as factorization of leading terms (here $x$), transformations (logarithms), etc.



Now let us go to the point.



De L'Hôpital's rule states that: if $f$ and $g$ are functions that are differentiable on some (small enough) open interval $I$ (except possibly at a point $x_0$ contained in $I$), if $$lim_{xto x_0}f(x)=lim_{xto x_0}g(x)=0 ;mathrm{ or }; pminfty,$$ if $g'(x)ne 0$ for all $x$ in $I$ with $x ne x_0$, and $lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}$ exists, then:



$$lim_{xto x_0}frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)},.$$



The most classical "counter-example" is when functions are constant: $f(x)=c$ and $g(x)=1$. The derivative of $g(x)$ vanishes on any open interval, while $f/g = c$.



The factorization proposed by @Nick Peterson typically avoids to resort to this overkill rule when it is not necessary (especially when the indeterminacy can be lifted easily).



De L'Hôpital's rule looks magic, and as for every magic, it shall be used wisely with parsimony (unless it unleashes terrible powers).






share|cite|improve this answer































    9














    others already said that l'Hopital requires existence of the limit of the ratio of the derivatives;
    However in addition, with a solid understanding of limit definition is still possible to prove solution applying De l'Hopital, but not to that function, think about this:



    $$lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x+1} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-sin(x)} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-1}$$
    condensed considering also $-infty$ with
    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$$
    where
    $$sig(x)=left{
    begin{matrix}
    0 & x=0\
    frac{|x|}x & xne 0
    end{matrix}
    right.$$



    prove the above while apply l'Hopital to



    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1}$$



    the squeezing inequities are true after a certain G, formally $exists G / forall xinRe,|x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



    applying the limit definition to $x over x+sin(x)$ the starting point M selecting all x>M has to be greater or equal than G (simply require $Mgeq G$), in this case M=G is great enough to say that the limit is the same 1.



    More formally (I actually didn't find an online pointable suitable formal definition of $lim_{xtoinfty}$, so I'm making it up)



    $$lim_{x to infty} f(x) = rin {Re, -infty, +infty, NaN} / \
    exists r in Re : forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists M in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > M : |f(x)-r|<epsilon \
    lor r=infty, omissis \
    lor r=+infty, omissis \
    lor r=-infty, omissis \
    lor r=NaN, omissis. $$
    (r as abbreviation of response, NaN (not a number) is when the limit doesn't exists and $lor$ is in this case a shortcut or).



    think of names



    $f(x)=frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$



    $g(x)=frac{x}{x pm 1}$, and when the definition of limit is used with g(x) the lower bound M is called G



    from the evident property
    $exists G' in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G' : x-1 leq x+sin(x) leq x+1$



    $Rightarrow exists G in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1} underleftarrow{=(?H)= lim_{x to +infty} frac{frac{d}{dx} x}{frac{d}{dx}(x pm 1)} = lim_{x to +infty} frac{1}{1 pm 0}=1}$$
    the existence of this limits (they are two, due to $pm$) ensures that



    $forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists G in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > G : |g(x)-r|<epsilon$



    Choosing $M geq G$ ($M$ is the lower bound in the definition of limit for $f(x)$)
    $$ Rightarrow
    lim_{x to infty} f(x)=1$$






    share|cite|improve this answer































      6














      There is another useful rule, which I don't seem to have seen written down explicitly:




      Let $f, g, r$ and $s$ be functions such that $gtoinfty$ and $r, s$ are bounded.

      Then the limit of $dfrac{f}{g}$ and the limit of $dfrac{f + r}{g + s}$ gives the same result.




      Applied here, since $sin x$ is bounded, the limit is the same as the limit of $dfrac{x}{x}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer























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        5 Answers
        5






        active

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        5 Answers
        5






        active

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        active

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        active

        oldest

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        131














        Your only error -- and it's a common one -- is in a subtle misreading of L'Hopital's rule. What the rules says is IF the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ exists then the limit of $f$ over $g$ also exists and the two limits are the same. It doesn't say anything if the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ doesn't exist.






        share|cite|improve this answer

















        • 66




          Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
          – imranfat
          Mar 23 '16 at 21:18






        • 6




          What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
          – gnasher729
          Mar 25 '16 at 21:11
















        131














        Your only error -- and it's a common one -- is in a subtle misreading of L'Hopital's rule. What the rules says is IF the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ exists then the limit of $f$ over $g$ also exists and the two limits are the same. It doesn't say anything if the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ doesn't exist.






        share|cite|improve this answer

















        • 66




          Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
          – imranfat
          Mar 23 '16 at 21:18






        • 6




          What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
          – gnasher729
          Mar 25 '16 at 21:11














        131












        131








        131






        Your only error -- and it's a common one -- is in a subtle misreading of L'Hopital's rule. What the rules says is IF the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ exists then the limit of $f$ over $g$ also exists and the two limits are the same. It doesn't say anything if the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ doesn't exist.






        share|cite|improve this answer












        Your only error -- and it's a common one -- is in a subtle misreading of L'Hopital's rule. What the rules says is IF the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ exists then the limit of $f$ over $g$ also exists and the two limits are the same. It doesn't say anything if the limit of $f'$ over $g'$ doesn't exist.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Mar 23 '16 at 21:17









        Barry Cipra

        59.1k653124




        59.1k653124








        • 66




          Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
          – imranfat
          Mar 23 '16 at 21:18






        • 6




          What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
          – gnasher729
          Mar 25 '16 at 21:11














        • 66




          Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
          – imranfat
          Mar 23 '16 at 21:18






        • 6




          What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
          – gnasher729
          Mar 25 '16 at 21:11








        66




        66




        Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
        – imranfat
        Mar 23 '16 at 21:18




        Not just a common error, a VERY common error. And I am from now on going to use the OP's example in my next calc batch!
        – imranfat
        Mar 23 '16 at 21:18




        6




        6




        What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
        – gnasher729
        Mar 25 '16 at 21:11




        What's even funnier is examples where you apply l'Hopital twice and get back where you started :-)
        – gnasher729
        Mar 25 '16 at 21:11











        37














        L'Hopital's rule only tells you that if the modified limit exists and has value $L$, then the original limit also exists and has value $L$. It doesn't tell you that the converse holds.



        So, the fact that the modified limit doesn't exist gives you no information about the original limit. So, you need a different method.



        Consider something more direct: can you compute
        $$
        lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin x}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{sin x}{x}}?
        $$






        share|cite|improve this answer





















        • Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
          – gnasher729
          Mar 24 '16 at 22:16






        • 2




          or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
          – djechlin
          Mar 25 '16 at 18:57
















        37














        L'Hopital's rule only tells you that if the modified limit exists and has value $L$, then the original limit also exists and has value $L$. It doesn't tell you that the converse holds.



        So, the fact that the modified limit doesn't exist gives you no information about the original limit. So, you need a different method.



        Consider something more direct: can you compute
        $$
        lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin x}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{sin x}{x}}?
        $$






        share|cite|improve this answer





















        • Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
          – gnasher729
          Mar 24 '16 at 22:16






        • 2




          or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
          – djechlin
          Mar 25 '16 at 18:57














        37












        37








        37






        L'Hopital's rule only tells you that if the modified limit exists and has value $L$, then the original limit also exists and has value $L$. It doesn't tell you that the converse holds.



        So, the fact that the modified limit doesn't exist gives you no information about the original limit. So, you need a different method.



        Consider something more direct: can you compute
        $$
        lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin x}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{sin x}{x}}?
        $$






        share|cite|improve this answer












        L'Hopital's rule only tells you that if the modified limit exists and has value $L$, then the original limit also exists and has value $L$. It doesn't tell you that the converse holds.



        So, the fact that the modified limit doesn't exist gives you no information about the original limit. So, you need a different method.



        Consider something more direct: can you compute
        $$
        lim_{xtoinfty}frac{x}{x+sin x}=lim_{xtoinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{sin x}{x}}?
        $$







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Mar 23 '16 at 21:12









        Nick Peterson

        26.2k23960




        26.2k23960












        • Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
          – gnasher729
          Mar 24 '16 at 22:16






        • 2




          or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
          – djechlin
          Mar 25 '16 at 18:57


















        • Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
          – gnasher729
          Mar 24 '16 at 22:16






        • 2




          or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
          – djechlin
          Mar 25 '16 at 18:57
















        Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
        – gnasher729
        Mar 24 '16 at 22:16




        Or 1 - sin x / (x + sin x).
        – gnasher729
        Mar 24 '16 at 22:16




        2




        2




        or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
        – djechlin
        Mar 25 '16 at 18:57




        or squeeze theorem using -1 <= sin x <= 1.
        – djechlin
        Mar 25 '16 at 18:57











        12














        Because you don't need it! And because one of the hypotheses (under which this technique applies) is not verified in this case.



        Here, in layman terms, the ratio of derivatives does not have a limit. The de l'Hospital rule is sometimes (often) misused: a lot of people believe that if one cannot compute the limit of a ratio, it is easier to compute the limit of the ratio of derivative. This is not true in general. Derivatives are rarely more continuous than original functions.



        And remember that the purpose of exercise is to train your mathematical skills, not to get the result. The teacher knows it already (hopefully). Using de L'Hôpital's rule is sometimes overkill, with which you don't learn what is going on with your function. It is better to try first simpler techniques, such as factorization of leading terms (here $x$), transformations (logarithms), etc.



        Now let us go to the point.



        De L'Hôpital's rule states that: if $f$ and $g$ are functions that are differentiable on some (small enough) open interval $I$ (except possibly at a point $x_0$ contained in $I$), if $$lim_{xto x_0}f(x)=lim_{xto x_0}g(x)=0 ;mathrm{ or }; pminfty,$$ if $g'(x)ne 0$ for all $x$ in $I$ with $x ne x_0$, and $lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}$ exists, then:



        $$lim_{xto x_0}frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)},.$$



        The most classical "counter-example" is when functions are constant: $f(x)=c$ and $g(x)=1$. The derivative of $g(x)$ vanishes on any open interval, while $f/g = c$.



        The factorization proposed by @Nick Peterson typically avoids to resort to this overkill rule when it is not necessary (especially when the indeterminacy can be lifted easily).



        De L'Hôpital's rule looks magic, and as for every magic, it shall be used wisely with parsimony (unless it unleashes terrible powers).






        share|cite|improve this answer




























          12














          Because you don't need it! And because one of the hypotheses (under which this technique applies) is not verified in this case.



          Here, in layman terms, the ratio of derivatives does not have a limit. The de l'Hospital rule is sometimes (often) misused: a lot of people believe that if one cannot compute the limit of a ratio, it is easier to compute the limit of the ratio of derivative. This is not true in general. Derivatives are rarely more continuous than original functions.



          And remember that the purpose of exercise is to train your mathematical skills, not to get the result. The teacher knows it already (hopefully). Using de L'Hôpital's rule is sometimes overkill, with which you don't learn what is going on with your function. It is better to try first simpler techniques, such as factorization of leading terms (here $x$), transformations (logarithms), etc.



          Now let us go to the point.



          De L'Hôpital's rule states that: if $f$ and $g$ are functions that are differentiable on some (small enough) open interval $I$ (except possibly at a point $x_0$ contained in $I$), if $$lim_{xto x_0}f(x)=lim_{xto x_0}g(x)=0 ;mathrm{ or }; pminfty,$$ if $g'(x)ne 0$ for all $x$ in $I$ with $x ne x_0$, and $lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}$ exists, then:



          $$lim_{xto x_0}frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)},.$$



          The most classical "counter-example" is when functions are constant: $f(x)=c$ and $g(x)=1$. The derivative of $g(x)$ vanishes on any open interval, while $f/g = c$.



          The factorization proposed by @Nick Peterson typically avoids to resort to this overkill rule when it is not necessary (especially when the indeterminacy can be lifted easily).



          De L'Hôpital's rule looks magic, and as for every magic, it shall be used wisely with parsimony (unless it unleashes terrible powers).






          share|cite|improve this answer


























            12












            12








            12






            Because you don't need it! And because one of the hypotheses (under which this technique applies) is not verified in this case.



            Here, in layman terms, the ratio of derivatives does not have a limit. The de l'Hospital rule is sometimes (often) misused: a lot of people believe that if one cannot compute the limit of a ratio, it is easier to compute the limit of the ratio of derivative. This is not true in general. Derivatives are rarely more continuous than original functions.



            And remember that the purpose of exercise is to train your mathematical skills, not to get the result. The teacher knows it already (hopefully). Using de L'Hôpital's rule is sometimes overkill, with which you don't learn what is going on with your function. It is better to try first simpler techniques, such as factorization of leading terms (here $x$), transformations (logarithms), etc.



            Now let us go to the point.



            De L'Hôpital's rule states that: if $f$ and $g$ are functions that are differentiable on some (small enough) open interval $I$ (except possibly at a point $x_0$ contained in $I$), if $$lim_{xto x_0}f(x)=lim_{xto x_0}g(x)=0 ;mathrm{ or }; pminfty,$$ if $g'(x)ne 0$ for all $x$ in $I$ with $x ne x_0$, and $lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}$ exists, then:



            $$lim_{xto x_0}frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)},.$$



            The most classical "counter-example" is when functions are constant: $f(x)=c$ and $g(x)=1$. The derivative of $g(x)$ vanishes on any open interval, while $f/g = c$.



            The factorization proposed by @Nick Peterson typically avoids to resort to this overkill rule when it is not necessary (especially when the indeterminacy can be lifted easily).



            De L'Hôpital's rule looks magic, and as for every magic, it shall be used wisely with parsimony (unless it unleashes terrible powers).






            share|cite|improve this answer














            Because you don't need it! And because one of the hypotheses (under which this technique applies) is not verified in this case.



            Here, in layman terms, the ratio of derivatives does not have a limit. The de l'Hospital rule is sometimes (often) misused: a lot of people believe that if one cannot compute the limit of a ratio, it is easier to compute the limit of the ratio of derivative. This is not true in general. Derivatives are rarely more continuous than original functions.



            And remember that the purpose of exercise is to train your mathematical skills, not to get the result. The teacher knows it already (hopefully). Using de L'Hôpital's rule is sometimes overkill, with which you don't learn what is going on with your function. It is better to try first simpler techniques, such as factorization of leading terms (here $x$), transformations (logarithms), etc.



            Now let us go to the point.



            De L'Hôpital's rule states that: if $f$ and $g$ are functions that are differentiable on some (small enough) open interval $I$ (except possibly at a point $x_0$ contained in $I$), if $$lim_{xto x_0}f(x)=lim_{xto x_0}g(x)=0 ;mathrm{ or }; pminfty,$$ if $g'(x)ne 0$ for all $x$ in $I$ with $x ne x_0$, and $lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)}$ exists, then:



            $$lim_{xto x_0}frac{f(x)}{g(x)} = lim_{xto x_0}frac{f'(x)}{g'(x)},.$$



            The most classical "counter-example" is when functions are constant: $f(x)=c$ and $g(x)=1$. The derivative of $g(x)$ vanishes on any open interval, while $f/g = c$.



            The factorization proposed by @Nick Peterson typically avoids to resort to this overkill rule when it is not necessary (especially when the indeterminacy can be lifted easily).



            De L'Hôpital's rule looks magic, and as for every magic, it shall be used wisely with parsimony (unless it unleashes terrible powers).







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 10 '18 at 20:55

























            answered Mar 24 '16 at 6:28









            Laurent Duval

            5,29811239




            5,29811239























                9














                others already said that l'Hopital requires existence of the limit of the ratio of the derivatives;
                However in addition, with a solid understanding of limit definition is still possible to prove solution applying De l'Hopital, but not to that function, think about this:



                $$lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x+1} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-sin(x)} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-1}$$
                condensed considering also $-infty$ with
                $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$$
                where
                $$sig(x)=left{
                begin{matrix}
                0 & x=0\
                frac{|x|}x & xne 0
                end{matrix}
                right.$$



                prove the above while apply l'Hopital to



                $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1}$$



                the squeezing inequities are true after a certain G, formally $exists G / forall xinRe,|x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                applying the limit definition to $x over x+sin(x)$ the starting point M selecting all x>M has to be greater or equal than G (simply require $Mgeq G$), in this case M=G is great enough to say that the limit is the same 1.



                More formally (I actually didn't find an online pointable suitable formal definition of $lim_{xtoinfty}$, so I'm making it up)



                $$lim_{x to infty} f(x) = rin {Re, -infty, +infty, NaN} / \
                exists r in Re : forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists M in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > M : |f(x)-r|<epsilon \
                lor r=infty, omissis \
                lor r=+infty, omissis \
                lor r=-infty, omissis \
                lor r=NaN, omissis. $$
                (r as abbreviation of response, NaN (not a number) is when the limit doesn't exists and $lor$ is in this case a shortcut or).



                think of names



                $f(x)=frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$



                $g(x)=frac{x}{x pm 1}$, and when the definition of limit is used with g(x) the lower bound M is called G



                from the evident property
                $exists G' in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G' : x-1 leq x+sin(x) leq x+1$



                $Rightarrow exists G in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1} underleftarrow{=(?H)= lim_{x to +infty} frac{frac{d}{dx} x}{frac{d}{dx}(x pm 1)} = lim_{x to +infty} frac{1}{1 pm 0}=1}$$
                the existence of this limits (they are two, due to $pm$) ensures that



                $forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists G in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > G : |g(x)-r|<epsilon$



                Choosing $M geq G$ ($M$ is the lower bound in the definition of limit for $f(x)$)
                $$ Rightarrow
                lim_{x to infty} f(x)=1$$






                share|cite|improve this answer




























                  9














                  others already said that l'Hopital requires existence of the limit of the ratio of the derivatives;
                  However in addition, with a solid understanding of limit definition is still possible to prove solution applying De l'Hopital, but not to that function, think about this:



                  $$lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x+1} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-sin(x)} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-1}$$
                  condensed considering also $-infty$ with
                  $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$$
                  where
                  $$sig(x)=left{
                  begin{matrix}
                  0 & x=0\
                  frac{|x|}x & xne 0
                  end{matrix}
                  right.$$



                  prove the above while apply l'Hopital to



                  $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1}$$



                  the squeezing inequities are true after a certain G, formally $exists G / forall xinRe,|x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                  applying the limit definition to $x over x+sin(x)$ the starting point M selecting all x>M has to be greater or equal than G (simply require $Mgeq G$), in this case M=G is great enough to say that the limit is the same 1.



                  More formally (I actually didn't find an online pointable suitable formal definition of $lim_{xtoinfty}$, so I'm making it up)



                  $$lim_{x to infty} f(x) = rin {Re, -infty, +infty, NaN} / \
                  exists r in Re : forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists M in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > M : |f(x)-r|<epsilon \
                  lor r=infty, omissis \
                  lor r=+infty, omissis \
                  lor r=-infty, omissis \
                  lor r=NaN, omissis. $$
                  (r as abbreviation of response, NaN (not a number) is when the limit doesn't exists and $lor$ is in this case a shortcut or).



                  think of names



                  $f(x)=frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$



                  $g(x)=frac{x}{x pm 1}$, and when the definition of limit is used with g(x) the lower bound M is called G



                  from the evident property
                  $exists G' in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G' : x-1 leq x+sin(x) leq x+1$



                  $Rightarrow exists G in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                  $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1} underleftarrow{=(?H)= lim_{x to +infty} frac{frac{d}{dx} x}{frac{d}{dx}(x pm 1)} = lim_{x to +infty} frac{1}{1 pm 0}=1}$$
                  the existence of this limits (they are two, due to $pm$) ensures that



                  $forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists G in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > G : |g(x)-r|<epsilon$



                  Choosing $M geq G$ ($M$ is the lower bound in the definition of limit for $f(x)$)
                  $$ Rightarrow
                  lim_{x to infty} f(x)=1$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer


























                    9












                    9








                    9






                    others already said that l'Hopital requires existence of the limit of the ratio of the derivatives;
                    However in addition, with a solid understanding of limit definition is still possible to prove solution applying De l'Hopital, but not to that function, think about this:



                    $$lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x+1} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-sin(x)} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-1}$$
                    condensed considering also $-infty$ with
                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$$
                    where
                    $$sig(x)=left{
                    begin{matrix}
                    0 & x=0\
                    frac{|x|}x & xne 0
                    end{matrix}
                    right.$$



                    prove the above while apply l'Hopital to



                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1}$$



                    the squeezing inequities are true after a certain G, formally $exists G / forall xinRe,|x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                    applying the limit definition to $x over x+sin(x)$ the starting point M selecting all x>M has to be greater or equal than G (simply require $Mgeq G$), in this case M=G is great enough to say that the limit is the same 1.



                    More formally (I actually didn't find an online pointable suitable formal definition of $lim_{xtoinfty}$, so I'm making it up)



                    $$lim_{x to infty} f(x) = rin {Re, -infty, +infty, NaN} / \
                    exists r in Re : forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists M in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > M : |f(x)-r|<epsilon \
                    lor r=infty, omissis \
                    lor r=+infty, omissis \
                    lor r=-infty, omissis \
                    lor r=NaN, omissis. $$
                    (r as abbreviation of response, NaN (not a number) is when the limit doesn't exists and $lor$ is in this case a shortcut or).



                    think of names



                    $f(x)=frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$



                    $g(x)=frac{x}{x pm 1}$, and when the definition of limit is used with g(x) the lower bound M is called G



                    from the evident property
                    $exists G' in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G' : x-1 leq x+sin(x) leq x+1$



                    $Rightarrow exists G in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1} underleftarrow{=(?H)= lim_{x to +infty} frac{frac{d}{dx} x}{frac{d}{dx}(x pm 1)} = lim_{x to +infty} frac{1}{1 pm 0}=1}$$
                    the existence of this limits (they are two, due to $pm$) ensures that



                    $forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists G in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > G : |g(x)-r|<epsilon$



                    Choosing $M geq G$ ($M$ is the lower bound in the definition of limit for $f(x)$)
                    $$ Rightarrow
                    lim_{x to infty} f(x)=1$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    others already said that l'Hopital requires existence of the limit of the ratio of the derivatives;
                    However in addition, with a solid understanding of limit definition is still possible to prove solution applying De l'Hopital, but not to that function, think about this:



                    $$lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x+1} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-sin(x)} leq lim_{x to +infty} frac{x}{x-1}$$
                    condensed considering also $-infty$ with
                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$$
                    where
                    $$sig(x)=left{
                    begin{matrix}
                    0 & x=0\
                    frac{|x|}x & xne 0
                    end{matrix}
                    right.$$



                    prove the above while apply l'Hopital to



                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1}$$



                    the squeezing inequities are true after a certain G, formally $exists G / forall xinRe,|x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                    applying the limit definition to $x over x+sin(x)$ the starting point M selecting all x>M has to be greater or equal than G (simply require $Mgeq G$), in this case M=G is great enough to say that the limit is the same 1.



                    More formally (I actually didn't find an online pointable suitable formal definition of $lim_{xtoinfty}$, so I'm making it up)



                    $$lim_{x to infty} f(x) = rin {Re, -infty, +infty, NaN} / \
                    exists r in Re : forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists M in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > M : |f(x)-r|<epsilon \
                    lor r=infty, omissis \
                    lor r=+infty, omissis \
                    lor r=-infty, omissis \
                    lor r=NaN, omissis. $$
                    (r as abbreviation of response, NaN (not a number) is when the limit doesn't exists and $lor$ is in this case a shortcut or).



                    think of names



                    $f(x)=frac{x}{x+sin(x)}$



                    $g(x)=frac{x}{x pm 1}$, and when the definition of limit is used with g(x) the lower bound M is called G



                    from the evident property
                    $exists G' in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G' : x-1 leq x+sin(x) leq x+1$



                    $Rightarrow exists G in Re^+ | forall x in Re, |x|>G : frac{x}{x+sig(x)} leq frac{x}{x+sin(x)} leq frac{x}{x-sig(x)}$



                    $$lim_{x to infty} frac{x}{xpm 1} underleftarrow{=(?H)= lim_{x to +infty} frac{frac{d}{dx} x}{frac{d}{dx}(x pm 1)} = lim_{x to +infty} frac{1}{1 pm 0}=1}$$
                    the existence of this limits (they are two, due to $pm$) ensures that



                    $forall epsilon in Re, epsilon>0: exists G in Re : forall x in Re, |x| > G : |g(x)-r|<epsilon$



                    Choosing $M geq G$ ($M$ is the lower bound in the definition of limit for $f(x)$)
                    $$ Rightarrow
                    lim_{x to infty} f(x)=1$$







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Mar 25 '16 at 5:48

























                    answered Mar 24 '16 at 19:03









                    Marco Munari

                    1094




                    1094























                        6














                        There is another useful rule, which I don't seem to have seen written down explicitly:




                        Let $f, g, r$ and $s$ be functions such that $gtoinfty$ and $r, s$ are bounded.

                        Then the limit of $dfrac{f}{g}$ and the limit of $dfrac{f + r}{g + s}$ gives the same result.




                        Applied here, since $sin x$ is bounded, the limit is the same as the limit of $dfrac{x}{x}$.






                        share|cite|improve this answer




























                          6














                          There is another useful rule, which I don't seem to have seen written down explicitly:




                          Let $f, g, r$ and $s$ be functions such that $gtoinfty$ and $r, s$ are bounded.

                          Then the limit of $dfrac{f}{g}$ and the limit of $dfrac{f + r}{g + s}$ gives the same result.




                          Applied here, since $sin x$ is bounded, the limit is the same as the limit of $dfrac{x}{x}$.






                          share|cite|improve this answer


























                            6












                            6








                            6






                            There is another useful rule, which I don't seem to have seen written down explicitly:




                            Let $f, g, r$ and $s$ be functions such that $gtoinfty$ and $r, s$ are bounded.

                            Then the limit of $dfrac{f}{g}$ and the limit of $dfrac{f + r}{g + s}$ gives the same result.




                            Applied here, since $sin x$ is bounded, the limit is the same as the limit of $dfrac{x}{x}$.






                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            There is another useful rule, which I don't seem to have seen written down explicitly:




                            Let $f, g, r$ and $s$ be functions such that $gtoinfty$ and $r, s$ are bounded.

                            Then the limit of $dfrac{f}{g}$ and the limit of $dfrac{f + r}{g + s}$ gives the same result.




                            Applied here, since $sin x$ is bounded, the limit is the same as the limit of $dfrac{x}{x}$.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited Oct 28 '16 at 18:24









                            Bumblebee

                            9,60812551




                            9,60812551










                            answered Mar 25 '16 at 21:16









                            gnasher729

                            5,9671028




                            5,9671028






























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