Finding solutions to $x + y = xy$ where $x > y$
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Finding solutions (no matter real or complex) for $x$ and $y$.
$$ x + y = xy$$
Where $x > y$.
Is this possible?
If I try to substitute 1 for $x$, it turns out:
begin{align}
(1) + y &= (1)y\
y + 1 &= y\
y - y = -1\
0 ≠ -1\
end{align}
EDIT: For complex solutions, disregard the condition $ x > y$
algebra-precalculus
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Finding solutions (no matter real or complex) for $x$ and $y$.
$$ x + y = xy$$
Where $x > y$.
Is this possible?
If I try to substitute 1 for $x$, it turns out:
begin{align}
(1) + y &= (1)y\
y + 1 &= y\
y - y = -1\
0 ≠ -1\
end{align}
EDIT: For complex solutions, disregard the condition $ x > y$
algebra-precalculus
There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
1
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
3
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
1
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
Finding solutions (no matter real or complex) for $x$ and $y$.
$$ x + y = xy$$
Where $x > y$.
Is this possible?
If I try to substitute 1 for $x$, it turns out:
begin{align}
(1) + y &= (1)y\
y + 1 &= y\
y - y = -1\
0 ≠ -1\
end{align}
EDIT: For complex solutions, disregard the condition $ x > y$
algebra-precalculus
Finding solutions (no matter real or complex) for $x$ and $y$.
$$ x + y = xy$$
Where $x > y$.
Is this possible?
If I try to substitute 1 for $x$, it turns out:
begin{align}
(1) + y &= (1)y\
y + 1 &= y\
y - y = -1\
0 ≠ -1\
end{align}
EDIT: For complex solutions, disregard the condition $ x > y$
algebra-precalculus
algebra-precalculus
edited 14 hours ago
user1551
70.5k566125
70.5k566125
asked 15 hours ago
MMJM
1981110
1981110
There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
1
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
3
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
1
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago
add a comment |
There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
1
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
3
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
1
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago
There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
1
1
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
3
3
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
1
1
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Consider
$$
A^2 - u A + u = 0,
$$
where $u = x+y =xy$, then $x,y$ are the roots of the equation above about $A$. $x >y$ implies $x, y in mathbb R$ [for complex numbers, we could define $<$, but none of them can guarantee that each pair $(x,y)$ is comparable ]. Then the discriminant
$$
u^2 - 4u > 0 iff u < 0 vee u >4.
$$
So to get one solution, pick some $u > 4$, say $u = 8$, then solve the quadratic, we have
$$
x = 4+2sqrt 2, y = 4-2sqrt 2.
$$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Solving for y:
$$y=dfrac{x}{x-1}$$
You want $xgt y$ so.
$$xgtdfrac{x}{x-1}$$
and you get:
$xgt 2$
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Here is a proof that gives the exhaustive set of solutions.
Equation $$x+y=xy text{with constraint} x>y, tag{1}$$
with the following change of variables (see the remark by @user1551):
$$x=u+1 text{and} y=v+1 tag{2}$$
is equivalent to the simpler problem:
$$uv=1 text{with constraint} u>v tag{3}$$
(the constraint on $u$ and $v$ is due to $x>y iff x-1>y-1$).
Thus it suffices to consider
either any $0<v<1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
or any $v<-1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
there are no other solutions, because other choices for $v$ give $u<v$.
Then switch back to variables $x,y$ using (2).
One can see a way to interpret what we do in terms of a supplementary image : (quadric) surface $z=xy$ intersected by plane with equation $z=1$ along the hyperbola whose horizontal projection has equation $y=frac{1}{x}$.

Remark : you cannot have complex solutions because $x>y$ doesn't make sense in $mathbb{C}$.
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Consider
$$
A^2 - u A + u = 0,
$$
where $u = x+y =xy$, then $x,y$ are the roots of the equation above about $A$. $x >y$ implies $x, y in mathbb R$ [for complex numbers, we could define $<$, but none of them can guarantee that each pair $(x,y)$ is comparable ]. Then the discriminant
$$
u^2 - 4u > 0 iff u < 0 vee u >4.
$$
So to get one solution, pick some $u > 4$, say $u = 8$, then solve the quadratic, we have
$$
x = 4+2sqrt 2, y = 4-2sqrt 2.
$$
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Consider
$$
A^2 - u A + u = 0,
$$
where $u = x+y =xy$, then $x,y$ are the roots of the equation above about $A$. $x >y$ implies $x, y in mathbb R$ [for complex numbers, we could define $<$, but none of them can guarantee that each pair $(x,y)$ is comparable ]. Then the discriminant
$$
u^2 - 4u > 0 iff u < 0 vee u >4.
$$
So to get one solution, pick some $u > 4$, say $u = 8$, then solve the quadratic, we have
$$
x = 4+2sqrt 2, y = 4-2sqrt 2.
$$
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Consider
$$
A^2 - u A + u = 0,
$$
where $u = x+y =xy$, then $x,y$ are the roots of the equation above about $A$. $x >y$ implies $x, y in mathbb R$ [for complex numbers, we could define $<$, but none of them can guarantee that each pair $(x,y)$ is comparable ]. Then the discriminant
$$
u^2 - 4u > 0 iff u < 0 vee u >4.
$$
So to get one solution, pick some $u > 4$, say $u = 8$, then solve the quadratic, we have
$$
x = 4+2sqrt 2, y = 4-2sqrt 2.
$$
Consider
$$
A^2 - u A + u = 0,
$$
where $u = x+y =xy$, then $x,y$ are the roots of the equation above about $A$. $x >y$ implies $x, y in mathbb R$ [for complex numbers, we could define $<$, but none of them can guarantee that each pair $(x,y)$ is comparable ]. Then the discriminant
$$
u^2 - 4u > 0 iff u < 0 vee u >4.
$$
So to get one solution, pick some $u > 4$, say $u = 8$, then solve the quadratic, we have
$$
x = 4+2sqrt 2, y = 4-2sqrt 2.
$$
answered 15 hours ago
xbh
5,2041421
5,2041421
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Solving for y:
$$y=dfrac{x}{x-1}$$
You want $xgt y$ so.
$$xgtdfrac{x}{x-1}$$
and you get:
$xgt 2$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Solving for y:
$$y=dfrac{x}{x-1}$$
You want $xgt y$ so.
$$xgtdfrac{x}{x-1}$$
and you get:
$xgt 2$
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Solving for y:
$$y=dfrac{x}{x-1}$$
You want $xgt y$ so.
$$xgtdfrac{x}{x-1}$$
and you get:
$xgt 2$
Solving for y:
$$y=dfrac{x}{x-1}$$
You want $xgt y$ so.
$$xgtdfrac{x}{x-1}$$
and you get:
$xgt 2$
answered 14 hours ago
Riccardo.Alestra
5,92112052
5,92112052
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Here is a proof that gives the exhaustive set of solutions.
Equation $$x+y=xy text{with constraint} x>y, tag{1}$$
with the following change of variables (see the remark by @user1551):
$$x=u+1 text{and} y=v+1 tag{2}$$
is equivalent to the simpler problem:
$$uv=1 text{with constraint} u>v tag{3}$$
(the constraint on $u$ and $v$ is due to $x>y iff x-1>y-1$).
Thus it suffices to consider
either any $0<v<1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
or any $v<-1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
there are no other solutions, because other choices for $v$ give $u<v$.
Then switch back to variables $x,y$ using (2).
One can see a way to interpret what we do in terms of a supplementary image : (quadric) surface $z=xy$ intersected by plane with equation $z=1$ along the hyperbola whose horizontal projection has equation $y=frac{1}{x}$.

Remark : you cannot have complex solutions because $x>y$ doesn't make sense in $mathbb{C}$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
Here is a proof that gives the exhaustive set of solutions.
Equation $$x+y=xy text{with constraint} x>y, tag{1}$$
with the following change of variables (see the remark by @user1551):
$$x=u+1 text{and} y=v+1 tag{2}$$
is equivalent to the simpler problem:
$$uv=1 text{with constraint} u>v tag{3}$$
(the constraint on $u$ and $v$ is due to $x>y iff x-1>y-1$).
Thus it suffices to consider
either any $0<v<1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
or any $v<-1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
there are no other solutions, because other choices for $v$ give $u<v$.
Then switch back to variables $x,y$ using (2).
One can see a way to interpret what we do in terms of a supplementary image : (quadric) surface $z=xy$ intersected by plane with equation $z=1$ along the hyperbola whose horizontal projection has equation $y=frac{1}{x}$.

Remark : you cannot have complex solutions because $x>y$ doesn't make sense in $mathbb{C}$.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
Here is a proof that gives the exhaustive set of solutions.
Equation $$x+y=xy text{with constraint} x>y, tag{1}$$
with the following change of variables (see the remark by @user1551):
$$x=u+1 text{and} y=v+1 tag{2}$$
is equivalent to the simpler problem:
$$uv=1 text{with constraint} u>v tag{3}$$
(the constraint on $u$ and $v$ is due to $x>y iff x-1>y-1$).
Thus it suffices to consider
either any $0<v<1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
or any $v<-1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
there are no other solutions, because other choices for $v$ give $u<v$.
Then switch back to variables $x,y$ using (2).
One can see a way to interpret what we do in terms of a supplementary image : (quadric) surface $z=xy$ intersected by plane with equation $z=1$ along the hyperbola whose horizontal projection has equation $y=frac{1}{x}$.

Remark : you cannot have complex solutions because $x>y$ doesn't make sense in $mathbb{C}$.
Here is a proof that gives the exhaustive set of solutions.
Equation $$x+y=xy text{with constraint} x>y, tag{1}$$
with the following change of variables (see the remark by @user1551):
$$x=u+1 text{and} y=v+1 tag{2}$$
is equivalent to the simpler problem:
$$uv=1 text{with constraint} u>v tag{3}$$
(the constraint on $u$ and $v$ is due to $x>y iff x-1>y-1$).
Thus it suffices to consider
either any $0<v<1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
or any $v<-1$ ; the ordered pair $(u=frac{1}{v},v)$ is a solution.
there are no other solutions, because other choices for $v$ give $u<v$.
Then switch back to variables $x,y$ using (2).
One can see a way to interpret what we do in terms of a supplementary image : (quadric) surface $z=xy$ intersected by plane with equation $z=1$ along the hyperbola whose horizontal projection has equation $y=frac{1}{x}$.

Remark : you cannot have complex solutions because $x>y$ doesn't make sense in $mathbb{C}$.
edited 12 hours ago
answered 13 hours ago
Jean Marie
28.2k41848
28.2k41848
add a comment |
add a comment |
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There's an easy way to find such solutions. You got the only case where the solution is not defined. Anyway, what does it means $x>y$ for complex numbers??
– Exodd
15 hours ago
1
Take, fro example, any $y in (1,2)$ and define $x$ to be $frac y {y-1}$.
– Kavi Rama Murthy
15 hours ago
3
You say "no matter real or complex" but then you require $x>y$. That doesn't make sense for complex numbers.
– Arthur
15 hours ago
@Murthy It breaks the condition $x > y$...
– MMJM
15 hours ago
1
You may rewrite the constraints as $(x-1)(y-1)=1$ and $x-1>y-1$. This should be easy.
– user1551
14 hours ago