Prove that EXT,TOT and INF are not recursively enumerable












1












$begingroup$


I am currently working on the reduction method to demonstrate that a set is not recursively enumerable but I am struggling to find suitable functions for the reductions.
In particular I have started working on the proving that the EXT set is not r.e.:



$$
EXT={x|phi_x text{ is extensible to a total recursive function}}
$$



My intuition leads me to try and find a reduction from
$overline{K}$to EXT by defining a function like this:
$$
f(x)=left{begin{matrix} text{extensible function} quad text{if } x epsilon overline{K} \ text{non-extensible function} quad text{if } xepsilon K end{matrix}right.
$$



by using an already total function as the extensible function (it is already total so it should also be extensible to total) and, for the non-extensible function something like this:



$$
g(x)=left{begin{matrix} x quad text{if } x epsilon K \ uparrow quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right.
$$



which cannot be extended to total as doing so would imply that K is recursive, which we know is not.
However, I am not sure whether this would work within the reduction method or not, as I would apply g(x) only when x $epsilon$ K.



As for the other two sets:
$$
TOT={x|phi_x text{ is total}} \
INF={x|dom(phi_x) text{is infinite}}
$$



again, I was instructed to use a reduction from $overline{K}$ to the set, but again I find myself struggling with finding a suitable function for the reduction. Any help with how to better understand the method will be appreciated!



EDIT: I thought about the fact that the literature out there might not be consistent. K is the Halting Problem set, meaning that:
$$
K= { x | phi_x(x) downarrow }
$$










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    1












    $begingroup$


    I am currently working on the reduction method to demonstrate that a set is not recursively enumerable but I am struggling to find suitable functions for the reductions.
    In particular I have started working on the proving that the EXT set is not r.e.:



    $$
    EXT={x|phi_x text{ is extensible to a total recursive function}}
    $$



    My intuition leads me to try and find a reduction from
    $overline{K}$to EXT by defining a function like this:
    $$
    f(x)=left{begin{matrix} text{extensible function} quad text{if } x epsilon overline{K} \ text{non-extensible function} quad text{if } xepsilon K end{matrix}right.
    $$



    by using an already total function as the extensible function (it is already total so it should also be extensible to total) and, for the non-extensible function something like this:



    $$
    g(x)=left{begin{matrix} x quad text{if } x epsilon K \ uparrow quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right.
    $$



    which cannot be extended to total as doing so would imply that K is recursive, which we know is not.
    However, I am not sure whether this would work within the reduction method or not, as I would apply g(x) only when x $epsilon$ K.



    As for the other two sets:
    $$
    TOT={x|phi_x text{ is total}} \
    INF={x|dom(phi_x) text{is infinite}}
    $$



    again, I was instructed to use a reduction from $overline{K}$ to the set, but again I find myself struggling with finding a suitable function for the reduction. Any help with how to better understand the method will be appreciated!



    EDIT: I thought about the fact that the literature out there might not be consistent. K is the Halting Problem set, meaning that:
    $$
    K= { x | phi_x(x) downarrow }
    $$










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      1












      1








      1





      $begingroup$


      I am currently working on the reduction method to demonstrate that a set is not recursively enumerable but I am struggling to find suitable functions for the reductions.
      In particular I have started working on the proving that the EXT set is not r.e.:



      $$
      EXT={x|phi_x text{ is extensible to a total recursive function}}
      $$



      My intuition leads me to try and find a reduction from
      $overline{K}$to EXT by defining a function like this:
      $$
      f(x)=left{begin{matrix} text{extensible function} quad text{if } x epsilon overline{K} \ text{non-extensible function} quad text{if } xepsilon K end{matrix}right.
      $$



      by using an already total function as the extensible function (it is already total so it should also be extensible to total) and, for the non-extensible function something like this:



      $$
      g(x)=left{begin{matrix} x quad text{if } x epsilon K \ uparrow quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right.
      $$



      which cannot be extended to total as doing so would imply that K is recursive, which we know is not.
      However, I am not sure whether this would work within the reduction method or not, as I would apply g(x) only when x $epsilon$ K.



      As for the other two sets:
      $$
      TOT={x|phi_x text{ is total}} \
      INF={x|dom(phi_x) text{is infinite}}
      $$



      again, I was instructed to use a reduction from $overline{K}$ to the set, but again I find myself struggling with finding a suitable function for the reduction. Any help with how to better understand the method will be appreciated!



      EDIT: I thought about the fact that the literature out there might not be consistent. K is the Halting Problem set, meaning that:
      $$
      K= { x | phi_x(x) downarrow }
      $$










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      I am currently working on the reduction method to demonstrate that a set is not recursively enumerable but I am struggling to find suitable functions for the reductions.
      In particular I have started working on the proving that the EXT set is not r.e.:



      $$
      EXT={x|phi_x text{ is extensible to a total recursive function}}
      $$



      My intuition leads me to try and find a reduction from
      $overline{K}$to EXT by defining a function like this:
      $$
      f(x)=left{begin{matrix} text{extensible function} quad text{if } x epsilon overline{K} \ text{non-extensible function} quad text{if } xepsilon K end{matrix}right.
      $$



      by using an already total function as the extensible function (it is already total so it should also be extensible to total) and, for the non-extensible function something like this:



      $$
      g(x)=left{begin{matrix} x quad text{if } x epsilon K \ uparrow quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right.
      $$



      which cannot be extended to total as doing so would imply that K is recursive, which we know is not.
      However, I am not sure whether this would work within the reduction method or not, as I would apply g(x) only when x $epsilon$ K.



      As for the other two sets:
      $$
      TOT={x|phi_x text{ is total}} \
      INF={x|dom(phi_x) text{is infinite}}
      $$



      again, I was instructed to use a reduction from $overline{K}$ to the set, but again I find myself struggling with finding a suitable function for the reduction. Any help with how to better understand the method will be appreciated!



      EDIT: I thought about the fact that the literature out there might not be consistent. K is the Halting Problem set, meaning that:
      $$
      K= { x | phi_x(x) downarrow }
      $$







      computability






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      edited Dec 24 '18 at 17:52







      BattiestFawn66

















      asked Dec 24 '18 at 17:12









      BattiestFawn66BattiestFawn66

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          1 Answer
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          $begingroup$

          First, a quick comment on extendibility in general. The function $g$ you describe is extendible to a total recursive function, contrary to what you claim - namely, it's extended by the identity function $xmapsto x$. When we extend a partial recursive function to a total recursive function, we don't need (a priori) to keep track of the original domain, so the fact that $dom(g)$ is complicated in no way directly prevents $g$ from being extendible.



          You have to work a bit harder to get a non-extendible function. As a partial hint, note that (fixing some $x$) if we have some $s$ such that we know $$varphi_x(x)downarrowiffvarphi_x(x)[s]downarrow,$$ then we can tell whether $xin K$ just by running $varphi_x(x)$ for $s$-many steps; conversely, for $xin K$ we can find the stage $s$ at which point $varphi_x(x)downarrow$.





          But let's say we've resolved the problem above, and we have a non-extendible function $h$. Then how can we use this to reduce $overline{K}$ to $EXT$?



          Well, suppose you're given an $x$ and you want to tell whether $xin overline{K}$. To do this, you want to build a function $f_x$ which is in $EXT$ iff $xinoverline{K}$ - that is, iff we never see $varphi_x(x)$ converge.



          The general strategy for doing this sort of thing is to think of $f_x$ in terms of "until" - namely, you want $f_x$ to sound like $$mbox{"do [blah] until (if ever) $varphi_x(x)$ converges, after which point do [foo]."}$$ Here [blah] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look extendible, and [foo] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look non-extendible.



          Looking extendible is easy - for example, we can simply require $f_x(y)$ to not be defined until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge (the everywhere-undefined function is definitely extendible!). Looking non-extendible is harder, but here's where our $h$ - once we have it - comes in: the $f_x$ we want should be "Look like the always-undefined function until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge, at which point behave like $h$." Now you just need to make this precise.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:46










          • $begingroup$
            What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:51











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          $begingroup$

          First, a quick comment on extendibility in general. The function $g$ you describe is extendible to a total recursive function, contrary to what you claim - namely, it's extended by the identity function $xmapsto x$. When we extend a partial recursive function to a total recursive function, we don't need (a priori) to keep track of the original domain, so the fact that $dom(g)$ is complicated in no way directly prevents $g$ from being extendible.



          You have to work a bit harder to get a non-extendible function. As a partial hint, note that (fixing some $x$) if we have some $s$ such that we know $$varphi_x(x)downarrowiffvarphi_x(x)[s]downarrow,$$ then we can tell whether $xin K$ just by running $varphi_x(x)$ for $s$-many steps; conversely, for $xin K$ we can find the stage $s$ at which point $varphi_x(x)downarrow$.





          But let's say we've resolved the problem above, and we have a non-extendible function $h$. Then how can we use this to reduce $overline{K}$ to $EXT$?



          Well, suppose you're given an $x$ and you want to tell whether $xin overline{K}$. To do this, you want to build a function $f_x$ which is in $EXT$ iff $xinoverline{K}$ - that is, iff we never see $varphi_x(x)$ converge.



          The general strategy for doing this sort of thing is to think of $f_x$ in terms of "until" - namely, you want $f_x$ to sound like $$mbox{"do [blah] until (if ever) $varphi_x(x)$ converges, after which point do [foo]."}$$ Here [blah] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look extendible, and [foo] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look non-extendible.



          Looking extendible is easy - for example, we can simply require $f_x(y)$ to not be defined until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge (the everywhere-undefined function is definitely extendible!). Looking non-extendible is harder, but here's where our $h$ - once we have it - comes in: the $f_x$ we want should be "Look like the always-undefined function until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge, at which point behave like $h$." Now you just need to make this precise.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:46










          • $begingroup$
            What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:51
















          0












          $begingroup$

          First, a quick comment on extendibility in general. The function $g$ you describe is extendible to a total recursive function, contrary to what you claim - namely, it's extended by the identity function $xmapsto x$. When we extend a partial recursive function to a total recursive function, we don't need (a priori) to keep track of the original domain, so the fact that $dom(g)$ is complicated in no way directly prevents $g$ from being extendible.



          You have to work a bit harder to get a non-extendible function. As a partial hint, note that (fixing some $x$) if we have some $s$ such that we know $$varphi_x(x)downarrowiffvarphi_x(x)[s]downarrow,$$ then we can tell whether $xin K$ just by running $varphi_x(x)$ for $s$-many steps; conversely, for $xin K$ we can find the stage $s$ at which point $varphi_x(x)downarrow$.





          But let's say we've resolved the problem above, and we have a non-extendible function $h$. Then how can we use this to reduce $overline{K}$ to $EXT$?



          Well, suppose you're given an $x$ and you want to tell whether $xin overline{K}$. To do this, you want to build a function $f_x$ which is in $EXT$ iff $xinoverline{K}$ - that is, iff we never see $varphi_x(x)$ converge.



          The general strategy for doing this sort of thing is to think of $f_x$ in terms of "until" - namely, you want $f_x$ to sound like $$mbox{"do [blah] until (if ever) $varphi_x(x)$ converges, after which point do [foo]."}$$ Here [blah] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look extendible, and [foo] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look non-extendible.



          Looking extendible is easy - for example, we can simply require $f_x(y)$ to not be defined until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge (the everywhere-undefined function is definitely extendible!). Looking non-extendible is harder, but here's where our $h$ - once we have it - comes in: the $f_x$ we want should be "Look like the always-undefined function until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge, at which point behave like $h$." Now you just need to make this precise.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$













          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:46










          • $begingroup$
            What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:51














          0












          0








          0





          $begingroup$

          First, a quick comment on extendibility in general. The function $g$ you describe is extendible to a total recursive function, contrary to what you claim - namely, it's extended by the identity function $xmapsto x$. When we extend a partial recursive function to a total recursive function, we don't need (a priori) to keep track of the original domain, so the fact that $dom(g)$ is complicated in no way directly prevents $g$ from being extendible.



          You have to work a bit harder to get a non-extendible function. As a partial hint, note that (fixing some $x$) if we have some $s$ such that we know $$varphi_x(x)downarrowiffvarphi_x(x)[s]downarrow,$$ then we can tell whether $xin K$ just by running $varphi_x(x)$ for $s$-many steps; conversely, for $xin K$ we can find the stage $s$ at which point $varphi_x(x)downarrow$.





          But let's say we've resolved the problem above, and we have a non-extendible function $h$. Then how can we use this to reduce $overline{K}$ to $EXT$?



          Well, suppose you're given an $x$ and you want to tell whether $xin overline{K}$. To do this, you want to build a function $f_x$ which is in $EXT$ iff $xinoverline{K}$ - that is, iff we never see $varphi_x(x)$ converge.



          The general strategy for doing this sort of thing is to think of $f_x$ in terms of "until" - namely, you want $f_x$ to sound like $$mbox{"do [blah] until (if ever) $varphi_x(x)$ converges, after which point do [foo]."}$$ Here [blah] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look extendible, and [foo] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look non-extendible.



          Looking extendible is easy - for example, we can simply require $f_x(y)$ to not be defined until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge (the everywhere-undefined function is definitely extendible!). Looking non-extendible is harder, but here's where our $h$ - once we have it - comes in: the $f_x$ we want should be "Look like the always-undefined function until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge, at which point behave like $h$." Now you just need to make this precise.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$



          First, a quick comment on extendibility in general. The function $g$ you describe is extendible to a total recursive function, contrary to what you claim - namely, it's extended by the identity function $xmapsto x$. When we extend a partial recursive function to a total recursive function, we don't need (a priori) to keep track of the original domain, so the fact that $dom(g)$ is complicated in no way directly prevents $g$ from being extendible.



          You have to work a bit harder to get a non-extendible function. As a partial hint, note that (fixing some $x$) if we have some $s$ such that we know $$varphi_x(x)downarrowiffvarphi_x(x)[s]downarrow,$$ then we can tell whether $xin K$ just by running $varphi_x(x)$ for $s$-many steps; conversely, for $xin K$ we can find the stage $s$ at which point $varphi_x(x)downarrow$.





          But let's say we've resolved the problem above, and we have a non-extendible function $h$. Then how can we use this to reduce $overline{K}$ to $EXT$?



          Well, suppose you're given an $x$ and you want to tell whether $xin overline{K}$. To do this, you want to build a function $f_x$ which is in $EXT$ iff $xinoverline{K}$ - that is, iff we never see $varphi_x(x)$ converge.



          The general strategy for doing this sort of thing is to think of $f_x$ in terms of "until" - namely, you want $f_x$ to sound like $$mbox{"do [blah] until (if ever) $varphi_x(x)$ converges, after which point do [foo]."}$$ Here [blah] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look extendible, and [foo] should be some behavior which makes $f_x$ look non-extendible.



          Looking extendible is easy - for example, we can simply require $f_x(y)$ to not be defined until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge (the everywhere-undefined function is definitely extendible!). Looking non-extendible is harder, but here's where our $h$ - once we have it - comes in: the $f_x$ we want should be "Look like the always-undefined function until we see $varphi_x(x)$ converge, at which point behave like $h$." Now you just need to make this precise.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Dec 24 '18 at 18:15









          Noah SchweberNoah Schweber

          124k10150287




          124k10150287












          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:46










          • $begingroup$
            What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:51


















          • $begingroup$
            Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:46










          • $begingroup$
            What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
            $endgroup$
            – BattiestFawn66
            Dec 25 '18 at 9:51
















          $begingroup$
          Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
          $endgroup$
          – BattiestFawn66
          Dec 25 '18 at 9:46




          $begingroup$
          Thank you for your answer. I am not sure I fully understand your suggestion on how to find a non-extensible function. Are you simply saying that we are able to decide whether x $ epsilon$ K or $overline{K}$ by simply considering a number of steps s which is fixed a priori? I don't understand how we can claim that $phi_x(x) downarrow$ in s steps without assuming that $phi_x(x)$ converges at all.
          $endgroup$
          – BattiestFawn66
          Dec 25 '18 at 9:46












          $begingroup$
          What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
          $endgroup$
          – BattiestFawn66
          Dec 25 '18 at 9:51




          $begingroup$
          What about this new function: $$ g(x)=left{begin{matrix} phi_x(x)+1 quad text{if } x epsilon K \ text{undefined} quad text{if } xepsilon overline{K} end{matrix}right. $$ can this be extended too by using the identity function when $x epsilon overline{K}$ ? And if so, could you please be more specific in explaining why, as it's not that clear to me at this stage.
          $endgroup$
          – BattiestFawn66
          Dec 25 '18 at 9:51


















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