What does vector operator for angular momentum measure?
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Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?
But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables
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$begingroup$
Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?
But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?
But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables
$endgroup$
Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?
But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables
quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables
edited Dec 20 '18 at 17:34
TaeNyFan
asked Dec 20 '18 at 17:13
TaeNyFanTaeNyFan
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6 Answers
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The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).
Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.
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You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
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– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
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I like this question. What you describe is taking:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$
which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$
where
$${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$
is the operator and
$${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$
is an ordinary vector.
Now with:
$$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$
the equation:
$$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$
doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.
Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:
$$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$
and eigenstates of that function look like:
$$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$
which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.
For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.
The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.
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Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.
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Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?
As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:
$$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$
Which more compactly is:
$$[L^2, L] = 0$$
Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:
$$L^2 f = lambda f$$
$$L_z f = lambda' f$$
What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.
Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.
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This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is
$$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$
where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$
But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$
Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.
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6 Answers
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The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).
Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).
Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).
Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.
$endgroup$
The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).
Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.
edited Dec 20 '18 at 23:56
answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:45
Luismi98Luismi98
12810
12810
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.
$endgroup$
You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.
answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:43
knzhouknzhou
43.5k11118207
43.5k11118207
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
$begingroup$
Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
$endgroup$
– Ruslan
Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I like this question. What you describe is taking:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$
which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$
where
$${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$
is the operator and
$${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$
is an ordinary vector.
Now with:
$$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$
the equation:
$$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$
doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.
Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:
$$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$
and eigenstates of that function look like:
$$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$
which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.
For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.
The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I like this question. What you describe is taking:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$
which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$
where
$${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$
is the operator and
$${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$
is an ordinary vector.
Now with:
$$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$
the equation:
$$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$
doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.
Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:
$$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$
and eigenstates of that function look like:
$$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$
which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.
For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.
The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I like this question. What you describe is taking:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$
which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$
where
$${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$
is the operator and
$${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$
is an ordinary vector.
Now with:
$$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$
the equation:
$$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$
doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.
Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:
$$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$
and eigenstates of that function look like:
$$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$
which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.
For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.
The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.
$endgroup$
I like this question. What you describe is taking:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$
which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:
$${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$
where
$${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$
is the operator and
$${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$
is an ordinary vector.
Now with:
$$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$
the equation:
$$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$
doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.
Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:
$$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$
and eigenstates of that function look like:
$$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$
which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.
For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.
The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.
edited Dec 21 '18 at 0:34
answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:39
JEBJEB
5,8831717
5,8831717
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Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.
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$begingroup$
Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.
$endgroup$
Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.
edited Dec 20 '18 at 18:45
JMac
8,54921832
8,54921832
answered Dec 20 '18 at 18:28
SAKhanSAKhan
1,057612
1,057612
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add a comment |
$begingroup$
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?
As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:
$$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$
Which more compactly is:
$$[L^2, L] = 0$$
Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:
$$L^2 f = lambda f$$
$$L_z f = lambda' f$$
What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.
Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?
As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:
$$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$
Which more compactly is:
$$[L^2, L] = 0$$
Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:
$$L^2 f = lambda f$$
$$L_z f = lambda' f$$
What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.
Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?
As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:
$$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$
Which more compactly is:
$$[L^2, L] = 0$$
Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:
$$L^2 f = lambda f$$
$$L_z f = lambda' f$$
What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.
Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.
$endgroup$
Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?
As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:
$$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$
Which more compactly is:
$$[L^2, L] = 0$$
Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:
$$L^2 f = lambda f$$
$$L_z f = lambda' f$$
What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?
Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.
Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.
edited Dec 20 '18 at 17:53
answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:46
JD_PMJD_PM
15313
15313
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is
$$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$
where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$
But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$
Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is
$$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$
where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$
But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$
Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is
$$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$
where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$
But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$
Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.
$endgroup$
This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is
$$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$
where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$
But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)
$$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$
Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.
answered Dec 21 '18 at 1:45
The_SympathizerThe_Sympathizer
3,784923
3,784923
add a comment |
add a comment |
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