What does vector operator for angular momentum measure?












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Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.



Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?



But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?










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    10












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    Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.



    Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?



    But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?










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      10












      10








      10


      2



      $begingroup$


      Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.



      Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?



      But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      Consider the vector operator for angular momentum $hat L=hat L_x vec i +hat L_y vec j + hat L_z vec k$.



      Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $psi$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $psi$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the $x,y,z$ components of the angular momentum?



      But since $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ does not commute, this should not be the meaning of $hat L$ because if we first make a measurement of $hat L_x$, the state of the particle will be changed, and $hat L_y$ should no longer act on the original state $psi$. What then does the vector operator $hat L$ gives us? More precisely, what is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?







      quantum-mechanics angular-momentum operators vectors observables






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      edited Dec 20 '18 at 17:34







      TaeNyFan

















      asked Dec 20 '18 at 17:13









      TaeNyFanTaeNyFan

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          The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).



          Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$





















            5












            $begingroup$

            You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
              $endgroup$
              – Ruslan
              Dec 21 '18 at 7:15





















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            I like this question. What you describe is taking:



            $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$



            which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:



            $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$



            where



            $${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$



            is the operator and



            $${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$



            is an ordinary vector.



            Now with:



            $$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$



            the equation:



            $$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$



            doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.



            Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:



            $$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$



            and eigenstates of that function look like:



            $$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$



            which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.



            For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.



            The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.






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              Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.






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                1












                $begingroup$


                Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?




                As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:



                $$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$



                Which more compactly is:



                $$[L^2, L] = 0$$



                Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:



                $$L^2 f = lambda f$$



                $$L_z f = lambda' f$$




                What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?




                Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.



                Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.






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                  This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is



                  $$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$



                  where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving



                  $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$



                  But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)



                  $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$



                  Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.






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                    6 Answers
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                    6 Answers
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                    The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).



                    Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$


















                      5












                      $begingroup$

                      The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).



                      Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$
















                        5












                        5








                        5





                        $begingroup$

                        The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).



                        Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$



                        The fact that $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$ do not commute means that you cannot have a function which is eigenfunction of the three operators. Your function can only be an eigenfunction of one of the component operators, say $hat L_z$ (it is the typically chosen one). However, the operator $hat L^2$ does commute with each of the component operators. So if we have an eigenfunction of $hat L_z$, it is also an eigenfunction of $hat L^2$. (But not an eigenfunction of $hat L_x$ and $hat L_y$).



                        Therefore, the answer to your question is that the operator $hat L$ is used to give us the magnitude of the angular momentum, by operating on the eigenfunction with its square: $hat L^2$. The eigenvalue is then $l(l+1)ħ^2$, which is the magnitude of the angular momentum squared.







                        share|cite|improve this answer














                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        edited Dec 20 '18 at 23:56

























                        answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:45









                        Luismi98Luismi98

                        12810




                        12810























                            5












                            $begingroup$

                            You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$













                            • $begingroup$
                              Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Ruslan
                              Dec 21 '18 at 7:15


















                            5












                            $begingroup$

                            You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$













                            • $begingroup$
                              Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Ruslan
                              Dec 21 '18 at 7:15
















                            5












                            5








                            5





                            $begingroup$

                            You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            You can only measure operators. A vector operator is a set of three operators, which we package into one piece of notation because they transform under rotations in a nice way. You can't measure it all in one go, any more than you can try to measure $hat{x}$ and $hat{p}$ at the same time. However, you can measure the components of $hat{L}$, which are, as you would expect, the components of the angular momentum.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:43









                            knzhouknzhou

                            43.5k11118207




                            43.5k11118207












                            • $begingroup$
                              Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Ruslan
                              Dec 21 '18 at 7:15




















                            • $begingroup$
                              Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                              $endgroup$
                              – Ruslan
                              Dec 21 '18 at 7:15


















                            $begingroup$
                            Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                            $endgroup$
                            – Ruslan
                            Dec 21 '18 at 7:15






                            $begingroup$
                            Also, aside from transformation under rotations, using this not-fully-measurable vector "operator" also lets us build other operators corresponding to such quantities as square of angular momentum $L^2$ or Laplace-Runge-Lenz vector $mathbf A=mkfrac{mathbf{r}}r-frac12(mathbf{p}timesmathbf{L}-mathbf{L}timesmathbf{p})$.
                            $endgroup$
                            – Ruslan
                            Dec 21 '18 at 7:15













                            3












                            $begingroup$

                            I like this question. What you describe is taking:



                            $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$



                            which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:



                            $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$



                            where



                            $${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$



                            is the operator and



                            $${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$



                            is an ordinary vector.



                            Now with:



                            $$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$



                            the equation:



                            $$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$



                            doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.



                            Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:



                            $$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$



                            and eigenstates of that function look like:



                            $$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$



                            which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.



                            For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.



                            The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.






                            share|cite|improve this answer











                            $endgroup$


















                              3












                              $begingroup$

                              I like this question. What you describe is taking:



                              $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$



                              which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:



                              $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$



                              where



                              $${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$



                              is the operator and



                              $${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$



                              is an ordinary vector.



                              Now with:



                              $$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$



                              the equation:



                              $$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$



                              doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.



                              Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:



                              $$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$



                              and eigenstates of that function look like:



                              $$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$



                              which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.



                              For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.



                              The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.






                              share|cite|improve this answer











                              $endgroup$
















                                3












                                3








                                3





                                $begingroup$

                                I like this question. What you describe is taking:



                                $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$



                                which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:



                                $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$



                                where



                                $${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$



                                is the operator and



                                $${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$



                                is an ordinary vector.



                                Now with:



                                $$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$



                                the equation:



                                $$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$



                                doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.



                                Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:



                                $$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$



                                and eigenstates of that function look like:



                                $$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$



                                which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.



                                For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.



                                The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.






                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                $endgroup$



                                I like this question. What you describe is taking:



                                $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat y} ... = {bf vec L}|lrangle$$



                                which would lead to problems. I think an eigenvalue equation for a vector operator should be:



                                $${bf hat L}|lrangle = hat L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + hat L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + hat L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = L_x|lrangle {bf hat x} + L_y|lrangle {bf hat y} + L_z|lrangle {bf hat z} = {bf vec L}|l>$$



                                where



                                $${bf hat L} = -ihbar (yfrac{partial}{partial z} - zfrac{partial}{partial y}){bf hat x} + (permutations) $$



                                is the operator and



                                $${bf vec L} = L_x {bf hat x}+ L_y {bf hat y} + L_z {bf hat z }$$



                                is an ordinary vector.



                                Now with:



                                $$ |lrangle equiv F_l(x, y, z)$$



                                the equation:



                                $$ {bf hat L}F_l(x, y, z) = {bf vec L}F_l(x, y, z)$$



                                doesn't have any non-trivial solutions: there are no eigenstates of completely known (non zero) angular momentum.



                                Regarding your question on "meaning": note that:



                                $$ L_z = -ihbarfrac{partial}{partialphi} $$



                                and eigenstates of that function look like:



                                $$ F(r, theta, phi) = R(r)Theta(theta)e^{pm i m phi} $$



                                which means that the function is invariant under rotations of $2pi/m$.



                                For a wave-function to be an eigenstate of ${bf hat L}$ it would have to invariant under some non-trivial rotation about not just the $z$-axis, but the $x$ and $y$ axes also--which would mean it would have to be invariant under some rotation about any axis.



                                The only thing I can think of that can do that is a sphere, and this is, of course, the zero angular momentum eigenstate.







                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                edited Dec 21 '18 at 0:34

























                                answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:39









                                JEBJEB

                                5,8831717




                                5,8831717























                                    2












                                    $begingroup$

                                    Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.






                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                    $endgroup$


















                                      2












                                      $begingroup$

                                      Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.






                                      share|cite|improve this answer











                                      $endgroup$
















                                        2












                                        2








                                        2





                                        $begingroup$

                                        Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.






                                        share|cite|improve this answer











                                        $endgroup$



                                        Basically you are asking does a state exist which is a simultaneous eigenstate of the three components. The answer is no. You can construct a state that is an eigenfunction of $L^2$ and any one component, usually the z-component is chosen. This is due to the commutation relations. If a state exists whose all three components are known then a rotation about any three axis will not change the state. But this would mean that the state would be spherically symmetric which is only possible if $L = 0$.







                                        share|cite|improve this answer














                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                        share|cite|improve this answer








                                        edited Dec 20 '18 at 18:45









                                        JMac

                                        8,54921832




                                        8,54921832










                                        answered Dec 20 '18 at 18:28









                                        SAKhanSAKhan

                                        1,057612




                                        1,057612























                                            1












                                            $begingroup$


                                            Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?




                                            As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:



                                            $$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$



                                            Which more compactly is:



                                            $$[L^2, L] = 0$$



                                            Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:



                                            $$L^2 f = lambda f$$



                                            $$L_z f = lambda' f$$




                                            What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?




                                            Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.



                                            Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.






                                            share|cite|improve this answer











                                            $endgroup$


















                                              1












                                              $begingroup$


                                              Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?




                                              As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:



                                              $$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$



                                              Which more compactly is:



                                              $$[L^2, L] = 0$$



                                              Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:



                                              $$L^2 f = lambda f$$



                                              $$L_z f = lambda' f$$




                                              What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?




                                              Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.



                                              Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.






                                              share|cite|improve this answer











                                              $endgroup$
















                                                1












                                                1








                                                1





                                                $begingroup$


                                                Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?




                                                As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:



                                                $$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$



                                                Which more compactly is:



                                                $$[L^2, L] = 0$$



                                                Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:



                                                $$L^2 f = lambda f$$



                                                $$L_z f = lambda' f$$




                                                What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?




                                                Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.



                                                Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.






                                                share|cite|improve this answer











                                                $endgroup$




                                                Does this mean that if we want to measure the angular momentum of a particle in state $ψ$, we take $hat L$ and let it act on $ψ$ to give us three possible eigenvalues of $hat L_x$, $hat L_y$ and $hat L_z$, which will correspond to the x,y,z components of the angular momentum?




                                                As you know $L_x$, $L_y$ and $L_z$ are incompatible observables, but note that $L^2$ does commute with the three components of the angular momentum, so:



                                                $$[L^2, Lx] = [L^2, Ly] =[L^2, Lz]=0$$



                                                Which more compactly is:



                                                $$[L^2, L] = 0$$



                                                Based on it, it is feasible to find simultaneous eigenstates of $L^2$ and one of the three components of the angular momentum. Using as an example $L_z$ we would get:



                                                $$L^2 f = lambda f$$



                                                $$L_z f = lambda' f$$




                                                What is the measurement this operator $hat L$ is trying to measure?




                                                Because of compatibility reasons, $L^2$ and the components of the angular momentum are worked out separately.



                                                Actually, to know $hat L$ you should know simultaneously the three components of the angular momentum which is not the case. The uncertainty principle denies it.







                                                share|cite|improve this answer














                                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                                share|cite|improve this answer








                                                edited Dec 20 '18 at 17:53

























                                                answered Dec 20 '18 at 17:46









                                                JD_PMJD_PM

                                                15313




                                                15313























                                                    1












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is



                                                    $$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$



                                                    where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving



                                                    $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$



                                                    But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)



                                                    $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$



                                                    Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                                    $endgroup$


















                                                      1












                                                      $begingroup$

                                                      This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is



                                                      $$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$



                                                      where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving



                                                      $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$



                                                      But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)



                                                      $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$



                                                      Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.






                                                      share|cite|improve this answer









                                                      $endgroup$
















                                                        1












                                                        1








                                                        1





                                                        $begingroup$

                                                        This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is



                                                        $$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$



                                                        where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving



                                                        $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$



                                                        But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)



                                                        $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$



                                                        Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.






                                                        share|cite|improve this answer









                                                        $endgroup$



                                                        This is right. You cannot have an eigenstate and eigenvalue of this vectorial angular momentum operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. In fact, one doesn't even need the commutation to see that this cannot work. The reasons are purely mathematical. Just consider that given an operator $hat{O}$, its eigenvalue equation is



                                                        $$hat{O} |psirangle = O |psirangle$$



                                                        where $O$ is the eigenvalue, which is generally a complex number, but should be a real number for operators representing physical parameters. Now consider what this should look like for vectorial operator $hat{mathbf{L}}$. We should, following the same logic, have it associated with an eigenvalue that is itself a vector, representing a specific angular momentum vector $mathbf{L}$, giving



                                                        $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = mathbf{L} |psirangle$$



                                                        But look at the right hand side. We have a vector multiplying a quantum state. That's not mathematically possible. You can only multiply a quantum state by a complex scalar, because that's the only other operation than addition and taking the inner product that is defined on the Hilbert space. So by that token alone, $hat{mathbf{L}}$ cannot have "eigenvalues" in this sense. And this makes sense: the output of applying your $hat{mathbf{L}}$ to a quantum state isn't even another quantum state, but instead the "vector of quantum states" (a "meta-vector", perhaps?)



                                                        $$hat{mathbf{L}} |psirangle = (hat{L}_x |psirangle) mathbf{i} + (hat{L}_y |psirangle) mathbf{j} + (hat{L}_z |psirangle) mathbf{k}$$



                                                        Thus even worse, technically your proposed "operator" isn't really a proper operator at all, but a map between two rather different vector spaces, and no such maps can have eigenvalues, only self-maps of the same vector space.







                                                        share|cite|improve this answer












                                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                                        share|cite|improve this answer










                                                        answered Dec 21 '18 at 1:45









                                                        The_SympathizerThe_Sympathizer

                                                        3,784923




                                                        3,784923






























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